Board meeting reinforcement

[Hal]

I have been tasked with updating the sound equipment in a school systems board room where public meetings and discussions are held on a monthly basis.
They have Shure SM86's sitting on desktop mic stands now and they do want that look. They would prefer to have something unseen.
I was thinking a PZM mounted on their desk in front of them would be a cleaner look but worried about pickup. My choices that I have been looking at are the Shure MX393 or the Crown Sound grabber. I think that I just read the Sound Grabber requires a battery and if that is correct then that cancels that out.
We are talking about 8 people sitting at long almost semi circle desk. We have some that are in your face leaning in and some that sitting back in their chair type. I was thinking one mic per person but thought I would bounce the idea off others to get some suggestions on what type of equipment would be the best for the job. Also, this needs to be kind of idiot proof because once I set this up and get some base line levels set, I do not plan to attend these meetings and leave the adjustments to someone else.

After all, I'm a network engineer, not a sound guy.

 

[jkowtko]

There are a lot of different podium mics with tabletop bases and very small gooseneck heads. Most are condensor, however, but there are a couple of dynamic ones out there. Dynamic should filter out more of the background noise. But a condensor with a long gooseneck that gets close enough to the speaker, should work well.

I would think a surface mic would pick up a lot of unwanted noise, shuffling papers on the tabletop, etc.

 

[FMEng]

Does the system have some kind of gating mixer? Eight is a lot of open mics for gain before feedback. You lose 3 dB for every doubling of the number of open mics.

 

[WooferHound]

If they want to be heard with any intelligibility, then you need to get the mic as close to their mouth as possible, this will mean goosenecks. Mics on the table will get covered up with paperwork.

 

[MNicolai]

We've had excellent results with the Earthworks IM-series mic's. We've used them in tabletops and in ceiling-mounted configurations. Not wanting to have the mic's on the table is a very common request to which no plug-n-play solutions exist.

That said -- there's no microphone that will single-handedly do what you're asking for. There's an art to planning the room acoustics and loudspeaker selection, placement, and aiming, as to increase your gain before feedback. There's even more of an art to tuning these systems so that you can have so many mic's on at once, potentially a distance from the people speaking into them. And in many cases, the Board wants foldback monitors so they can hear the other members talking, which can contribute to feedback potential if done improperly.

My caution to you is that you can spend $2000/mic for the highest, top-of-the-line equipment and still not solve your problem to the Board's satisfaction. I recommend you find an AV integrator with previous experience in boardroom systems and get them to propose a solution. You don't want to be responsible for this project not working out if they don't like the final result. I've seen network guys end up in that position before where they were expected to be experts in AV, and found themselves in trouble with the school board for not better understanding audio reinforcement (which isn't anywhere in their job description). Anytime there were issues, the IT guys ended up with nastygrams in their inboxes from multiple Board members. Don't play in the freeway. If this isn't your expertise, it's safer to find someone who's expertise this is than to try and find a solution online.

 

[Hal]

Does the system have some kind of gating mixer? Eight is a lot of open mics for gain before feedback. You lose 3 dB for every doubling of the number of open mics.

They are running the current mics into a 20 channel Yamaha mixer that also controls the LCD TV and DVD player. I have had the talk with them that if they want to be heard or if they want to sound intelligent then they need to speak up.
I have to turn in a proposed budget for the new equipment before I purchase anything and I am understanding goosenecks are probably the better choice. Possibly the Shure MX412 if they can get past the idea of something sticking up in front of them.

 

[Hal]

We've had excellent results with the Earthworks IM-series mic's. We've used them in tabletops and in ceiling-mounted configurations. Not wanting to have the mic's on the table is a very common request to which no plug-n-play solutions exist.

That said -- there's no microphone that will single-handedly do what you're asking for. There's an art to planning the room acoustics and loudspeaker selection, placement, and aiming, as to increase your gain before feedback. There's even more of an art to tuning these systems so that you can have so many mic's on at once, potentially a distance from the people speaking into them. And in many cases, the Board wants foldback monitors so they can hear the other members talking, which can contribute to feedback potential if done improperly.

My caution to you is that you can spend $2000/mic for the highest, top-of-the-line equipment and still not solve your problem to the Board's satisfaction. I recommend you find an AV integrator with previous experience in boardroom systems and get them to propose a solution. You don't want to be responsible for this project not working out if they don't like the final result. I've seen network guys end up in that position before where they were expected to be experts in AV, and found themselves in trouble with the school board for not better understanding audio reinforcement (which isn't anywhere in their job description). Anytime there were issues, the IT guys ended up with nastygrams in their inboxes from multiple Board members. Don't play in the freeway. If this isn't your expertise, it's safer to find someone who's expertise this is than to try and find a solution online.

WOW, I love the idea and the design but the cost. One retailer had the cost at $700 per mic. Where we live is not a hotbed for AV Integrators. The nearest would be 45 miles away and ones I would trust are more than a 100 miles away and once I turn in a budget, I am not even sure this project will get funded. Then we would be in travel expense and planning expense that nobody will want to pay for.

 

[MNicolai]

WOW, I love the idea and the design but the cost. One retailer had the cost at $700 per mic. Where we live is not a hotbed for AV Integrators. The nearest would be 45 miles away and ones I would trust are more than a 100 miles away and once I turn in a budget, I am not even sure this project will get funded. Then we would be in travel expense and planning expense that nobody will want to pay for.

Depending on what the existing conditions are, it may not be more than a couple days for installation and tuning. For that matter, it may not require any serious alterations to the existing acoustics and PA. If you snap some photos and send them to an integrator for a proposal, they can probably whip something up for you without the trouble of a distant trip.

The funding would likely depend primarily on how mission-critical the application is. I've worked with a couple school districts where they'd throw $30k at a board meeting system because they were broadcasting the meetings on local TV and wanted to make absolutely sure none of the staff or board members looked foolish trying to get things to work while on TV. I've also worked with others though where that kind of money was impossible to find, which is fine, but with a lower budget comes more risk in how the eventual system will sound and how much user-expertise it requires in setup and tear-down.

You may want to solicit a proposal or two for what the system should cost, if for no other reason than to cover your butt when you go out and spend $3,000 for what should be a $30,000 system. That way they understand that the $3,000 is a substantial compromise and that they should not necessarily expect all of their troubles to be solved by the $3,000 purchase. Better yet, if you have an integrator you like, send them the a few photos and a brief description, and ask for ROM (Rough Order of Magnitude) pricing on what other schools they've worked with have spent on similar board meeting systems. This saves the integrator the time of developing a proposal specifically for you that may never come to fruition, and gives you the ability to inform your board what an average board meeting system is going for these days.

One of the more dangerous mistakes that can be made in this type of situation is letting the Board believe that $3,000 buys them a sufficient solution, when really you felt you needed $12,000 to do the job right. When the $3,000 solution doesn't cut it for them, they'll want to know why they spent all that money on a band-aid. If/when more money needs to be invested into the system to further improve it, they'll have feel bitter about it -- like they've been swindled. You want to set their expectations appropriately the first time 'round so they know you've done your finest work keeping their interests protected, even if turns out they can't afford the perfect dream system they'd love and need to make some compromises to bring thing under budget.

 

[Dan0010]

not sure if your looking only for wired but i've been using revolabs. there elite series is nice if you want boundary microphones or gooseneck they got both. http://www.revolabs.com/products/product-line/executive-elite/executive-elite-microphones

although i would say find an integrator if you don't have the connections and get some to trial.