Building Jurisdiction After Fire Alarm

[MNicolai]

Another factor to consider is the power of conditioning. Not clearing out during an alarm conditions people to wait around and see what happens. In the event of a real alarm, they don't evacuate unless they see smoke, flame, or another person leaving. While your alarm may actually be false, by them learning to not clear out during alarms that would inconvenience them, they may later be at a place of work or school and decide again to not evacuate.

I worked at a place where there were no strobes or alarms (office space, not a performance venue). All they had were phones that notified you of an emergency. In one case, it was a full week before I noticed that the phone near my desk said "TORNADO WARNING" on it. I asked around and found out that a week before we had been under a tornado warning. It worked a little better during a fire drill, as the phones actually rang, which they hadn't during the tornado warning. Still, every fire alarm there started with everyone looking around going, "You gonna leave?"

I remember a priceless moment in high school after school had already ended for the day. Students were hanging out in hallways, going to extracurriculars. Some teachers went home, but others were still sitting at their desks. The fire alarms went off and nobody moved. I saw one teacher stand up, go into the hallway, look both ways, then go back into his room and close the door. All of the students just stayed where they were in the hallways. Many of those students are now in college dorms, where fire alarms tend to happen often, both as real alarms and as false alarms. They've got a pretty solid impression now not to leave their room unless they see smoke or until someone eventually knocks on their door and tells them to leave. What they don't know is that while they're on the 12th floor, the 3rd floor might be burning up and the longer they wait to get out, the harder it will be to get out alive.

That guy who didn't leave during the alarm? He's the drama dept. head. If I wasn't in the room, he'd happily let a rehearsal continue through a fire alarm. (He's usually really a good guy, but fire protection is one of those things that him and I tend to disagree on -- it inconveniences him. But whenever I'm in the room, he does what he knows I'd want him to do for no other reason than he doesn't want to have that debate with me for the thirty-fifth time...)

 

[starksk]

... I worked at a place where there were no strobes or alarms (office space, not a performance venue). All they had were phones that notified you of an emergency. In one case, it was a full week before I noticed that the phone near my desk said "TORNADO WARNING" on it. I asked around and found out that a week before we had been under a tornado warning. It worked a little better during a fire drill, as the phones actually rang, which they hadn't during the tornado warning. Still, every fire alarm there started with everyone looking around going, "You gonna leave?" ...

To be fair:

A. When the alarm is actually active, there is a special announcement ring that does not sound anything like a phone ring that rings every extension in the building and plays over the announcement system for those areas without phones. Any room with more than one phone is loud with the ring of the alarm.

B. The alarm also plays into the handset/headset of the phone to alert the person on the phone that there is an alarm and is obnoxious enough to make you want to end the call. Also, you must manually clear the alert from every extension so it is impossible for someone to silence the alarm in their cube without explicitly acknowledging it. (This is why it was still displayed on a rarely used extension)

What does this mean in context? Well, when scheduling drills, be unpredictable. The reason everyone was looking around was to see if this was a part of a rescheduled drill from the last time where weather was not cooperating. In furthering this unpredictability, because this specific place (as most buildings do) requires a primary and alternate escape route, they put up obstacles in the paths of some of the primary exit routes, forcing the staff to remember the alternate route and plan.

One downside to the system used is that there is a need to confirm the type of alarm presented. Even though the tones are slightly different, most people still look at their phone to determine if the alarm is a fire alarm, tornado warning, or giant spider invasion (one of the test alarms). One wouldn't want to evacuate the building in a tornado warning...

Training is the most important part of this equation; knowing your system and how to respond appropriately and guide others to do the same. It is a problem that faces every mass of people in a building, but is something that we can all help to make sure gets done correctly.

 

[MNicolai]

I was told several times how the system was supposed to work, but in practice it never worked as well as they said it was supposed to. There were (are) leaks in the system. I was sitting within arm's reach of my phone the afternoon that the tornado warning happened and the threat had come and gone a full 24 hours before I noticed the alert on the phone.

During the actual fire drill where the phones rang, I was at a workbench stripping wires with my headphones on and it wasn't until two guys tapped me on the shoulder that I noticed anything was going on.

The guy who sat directly across the lab from me (who says his phone has never made noise during a fire alarm) also pointed out that to trigger an alarm, you have to call reception. So it's really early in the morning or after hours and there's no one at the reception desk, now what? What if it's after hours and there is someone at the reception desk but I'm the last guy up in the lab and there's no one to tap my shoulder when I've got my headphones on and alarms are going off?

What about the deaf guy?

A system without visual alerts that's not readily triggered and isn't loud enough to be heard by people wearing headphones or ear protection is a system that's very poorly designed for the modern workplace.

 

[museav]

It might be worth addressing that this thread seems to possibly be broaching two different subjects. There are life safety aspects where building code, AHJ, etc. come into play and where what must or cannot be done may be strictly defined. Then there are discretionary announcement systems, such as for severe weather. When I worked for a large consulting engineering firm these two aspects would typically involve two different systems designed by two different groups within the company and installed by two different Contractors.

Since I did not, and do not, work in the life safety aspects I have very limited expertise regarding them. However, I do not know of any that did not require specific visual and aural signaling using dedicated systems.

In furthering this unpredictability, because this specific place (as most buildings do) requires a primary and alternate escape route, they put up obstacles in the paths of some of the primary exit routes, forcing the staff to remember the alternate route and plan.

Providing and maintaining clear exit paths is a code requirement. A real emergency occurring while they've intentionally impeded the exits could be a real mess. Not to mention that people seeing them doing this makes it being a drill a bit obvious.

 

[teqniqal]

Providing and maintaining clear exit paths is a code requirement. A real emergency occurring while they've intentionally impeded the exits could be a real mess. Not to mention that people seeing them doing this makes it being a drill a bit obvious.

The intent of presenting an ‘obstacle’ to egress is not to actually place any physical object in the pathway, but to instead post an individual at this point with a simple placard in their hand that states "This exit is not available for this fire drill exercise." The person should not speak, point, or answer questions. It is the responsibility of the person attempting egress through this path to figure-out what to do next. The 'obstacle’ should note any confusion and report back to the drill director what situations were encountered so that further instructions and training can be provided. Part of the exercise is to teach people to think for themselves and to learn to know multiple exit route strategies.

 

[MNicolai]

Erich is spot on, and it worked very well. They, only for the duration of the drill, placed garbage barrels in front of doorways representing a "fire" or otherwise blocked exit, with a person there with their arms folded just looking forward and not speaking. The idea is to remind people that there are other exits they can take if one is impassable. They do not need to and should not wait for that exit to be cleared unless they have actually had all other options exhausted.

It was the first time I had seen that done and wish schools did that during their drills.

 

[derekleffew]

The intent of presenting an ‘obstacle’ to egress is not to actually place any physical object in the pathway, ...

Exactly. What if the real "obstacle" is the fire itself?
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...to determine if the alarm is a fire alarm, tornado warning, or giant spider invasion (one of the test alarms). ...

Work Fails & Job LOLs - Monday Through Friday - Page 5 : "Did you get the memo about the giant spider infestation? Might wanna give it another look."

 

[museav]

The intent of presenting an ‘obstacle’ to egress is not to actually place any physical object in the pathway, but to instead post an individual at this point with a simple placard in their hand that states "This exit is not available for this fire drill exercise."

I understand this, but what was said was "...they put up obstacles in the paths of some of the primary exit routes, forcing the staff to remember the alternate route and plan." Not people and not officials but obstacles that were "put up", which suggests some physical object and thus seems critically different from what you describe. Even placing garbage barrels in the exit path would seem questionable since they would be in the way if a real alarm did occur. It is such details that can be critical and why I get concerned about many safety related discussions. And having been in a building that experienced a real alarm on the day of a scheduled drill, you can't assume a real emergency won't happen when a drill is scheduled.

 

[zmb]

Appraently, the building code in 1983 didn't require fire alarms in every room. So in my school pretty much has alarms in the hallways that probably can't be heard if the classroom is noisy and the bell/buzzer is way more noticeable. Also, depending on where you are in the building, the fastest way out may be going out in the exposed hallway, back into the building, then out to the parking lot.

Sure makes me feel safe along with the cracked ceiling tiles and electical boxes hanging out of the wall

 

[Les]

It was the first time I had seen that done and wish schools did that during their drills.

My elementary school did this. Usually it was a janitor holding a sign which read "FIRE".

High school, on the other hand, was way more predictable. The drills were almost ALWAYS during our second block class (so you always took the same route out of the building) and the teacher would usually tell us that there was going to be a fire drill during class. They would get the memo. Terrible system.

In fact, one time there was a real fire after school and no one knew what to do. Some one set a butcher paper poster on fire in the hallway between our black box theatre and the auditorium. I was walking through the black box on my way to the auditorium where rehearsals were about to take place. Then the alarms started going off, which actually wasn't "alarming", since they always seemed to "test" the system right after school let out.

When I walked out of the studio and saw the sign on fire, and theatre students quickly exiting the stage through the electric roll-up doors (which were now automatically closing -- think of that scene during Titanic) I then knew it was a real fire.

Some kid actually ripped the poster down (it was big -- like 6' x 10') and beat it out with his hoodie. A VERY bad idea, especially considering there was a fire extinguisher just down the hallway. But of course, students should never fight fires anyway.

Funny thing was, the fire was out, the whole wing was full of smoke, the fire alarms were going crazy sounding and shutting down only to start sounding again, and no one ever showed up [to the general evacuation area or the area where the alarm was triggered]. No administrators, teachers or janitors. The fire department didn't even get there for about another 10 minutes, and this was an inner-city school.

No damage to the school was done, other than some staining on the tile wall. I don't think they ever caught the kid who did it.

I heard later that other people in the school didn't evacuate until a vice principal ran in to the classroom and said "Get out. it's a REAL fire!"

 

[Soxred93]

That's exactly what it's like here. It does vary in the time of day from one to the next, but everyone ALWAYS knows about it before it happens. Teachers all tell the students, students tell others, and the entire school knows days before it will happen. When it happens, people take their time getting out, they get their books out of their lockers for the next class, etc etc etc. I dread to think of what would happen if there was a real fire.

 

[hitchhiker]

I have a good take on this.

In addition to my techie duties at the school I work for, I'm also in charge of security plans, (which include fire). We tell our staff (including the theater directors) to evacuate for ANY fire alarm, even if during a performance.

We have a fairly new building (2002). One of the earlier shows we put on the director called for smoke, and dug out this little heated-oil smoke machine. That night after the students and most of the staff left, I called the alarm company and fire dept., told them I was running a test of a smoke machine, and ran the test. Needless to say the alarm went off 4 times in the following 15 minutes (the theater, the hall, the elevator, and the hall one flight up). The only smoke effect I allow now is Dry-ice based effects (ran that test several times - no alarms).


On the other side of the coin, I heard about show at a public high school in the county where they used oil-based smoke effects. For one particular performance, the kid on the fogger got a little trigger happy, and the fire alarms went off - and kept sounding for like 5 minutes while the show went on. The alarm was apparently reset for a minute, then it went off again. This was toward the end of the show. Eventually the fire-fighters showed up, and right after the show ended - they made everyone leave the building - then let them back in. I heard later that the fire marshall for that town teared the principal and the director at that school new ones.

It's important to remember - for the student techs out there - that schools are schools - whether its during classes or during an evening performance - and that schools are subject to much stricter fire regulations than other places. In Jersey (as well as most other states I'm sure) you are REQUIRED to evacuate a school if the fire alarm goes off - even if you are 100% positive it is the smoke machine.

As for the predictibably of the fire drills, my princial and I only announce the first one of the year and drills that occur on a very cold day. other than those, the only people who know about the drills beforehand are myself and the principal. And we do vary the days and times they occur. (I occasionally pop one in during a class change also.

 

[PatrickAngle]

In our theatre we take fire alarms going off very seriously.

Our high school is in middle of renovations, including new performing arts classrooms along the north side of our theatre. As a result of this construction, all the exits on the north side of our theatre have been deemed unsafe. Those exits account for about 40% of our exits. At the beginning of every show the auditorium director in charge that night goes out to the front of the house and informs the audience of the closed exits, and the resulting fire exit procedures. Our director has also briefed all of us on protocol for fire alarms.

In the past year we have had to evacuate our theatre about 10 times, sometimes during packed award ceremonies, sometimes during drama camps for elementary students, and other times while hanging and focusing lights. All of these alarms have been false, typically caused by dust buildup in smoke detectors due to the construction. At this point, on one is really surprised to hear the fire alarm, and we all jump into action by helping evacuate our house and making sure people move away from the building.

 

[Blacksheep0317]

I will respond here both as a firefighter and a FOH engineer that recently sent 400 people out of one of my venues during a false alarm.

My last fire alarm was a obvious haze issue..no contest. However I still asked everyone to leave the building. Even though it was February. In Buffalo NY. Getting a clear image?

But, that is what the fire pre-plan was. Every public space "should" have a emergency pre-plan. Most places will say to leave the building, however some large spaces may tell you to stay where you are unless you are in an immediate life danger environment. Reasoning? Many.. In a smaller one room venue like many theaters it may be simple to get everyone out in a simple, timely manner and have a place for them all to go. But, to mention the example previous, someplace like LV where you may have over 1500 people in your room, plus the rest of the hotel, casino, and assorted connected structures, you may actually put people in harm by trying to evacuate. Many larger venues have systems in place to isolate certain areas within them and so as to keep people in a certain area safer and to make evacuation of the immediate danger area faster, safer and easier. This also makes the job of accounting for people easier and helps eliminate the unnecessary danger of sending fireman to search for someone who is standing separate from everyone else.

Long story short, find your pre-plan. Know it, make sure your people know it, and practicing it doesn't hurt. If you don't have a plan, get together with the jurisdiction in your area and make one. A failure to plan is a plan to fail, and as shown in the past, failures here lead to lots of death.

 

[derekleffew]

Here's what will always have me nervous: No matter how many security or emergency personnel you have, when 18,000 people think their lives are currently in, or may soon be in immediate danger, even if the risk is minimal, people might leave in a rush. Such a rush that people are crawling on top of each other to make their way to the doors. This is especially the case for situations where smoke can propagate quickly. Few things are scarier than an approaching cloud of black, probably toxic smoke.

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/news/25093-small-fire-breaks-out-rihanna-concert.html

 

[MNicolai]

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/news/25093-small-fire-breaks-out-rihanna-concert.html

Point well made.