Buying new equipment!!! HELP!

[nickstar514]

Hey,

I am the stage crew moderator for a high school we have been given a budget of about 7k. I know in the lighting world its not a a lot but we don't need a lot of equipment. I am in between buying about 6 scrollers and some more source 4's or.... buying a couple of movers. For the movers i'm thinking of 8 mac 101's or something along those lines. Is there anything else i should keep my options open for? Please help me

 

[Les]

The heck is a stage crew moderator? In any event...

I strongly suggest that you take a look at the Gafftaper Method - ControlBooth.
For $7K, you're not going to get a lot of mover for the money (the 101 will probably be too dim for many theatrical uses, and at around $2,000ea, you can afford maybe three and a half), so I would tend to focus on the accessories and instruments if you need them.

It sounds like you may be a student(?) so be sure to have a superior (who will be stuck using the equipment long after you are gone) review your choices .

 

[gafftaper]

Read the Gafftaper method. I came up with it because of people like you. Don't buy movers. Get some scrollers or seachangers and some i-cues or right arms. You will use them for every event. Movers in that price range will be under powered. Will you have the money to buy the $300+ lamps? Will you have the time to program them? Who is going to service them. On the other hand its amazing how much a few i-cues/right arms will free your creativity.

 

[sk8rsdad]

Take a look at the productions coming up this year and the inventory you currently have, then focus on filling in the gaps between what you have and what you need. Bias your decision toward things that have more than one use. It's nice to buy shiny new toys but it is always better to invest in the gear that will help you get your job done.

 

[nickstar514]

I am actually a teacher. I am an art teacher but they hired me to look over the kids and just be an "adult figure". (its really so they don't kill themselves. I have called martin and they are willing to work with us we are able to get 8 of them for under 7k... and the demo we tried was pretty bright. but thank you for your input.

 

[Robert]

I am actually a teacher. I am an art teacher but they hired me to look over the kids and just be an "adult figure". (its really so they don't kill themselves. I have called martin and they are willing to work with us we are able to get 8 of them for under 7k... and the demo we tried was pretty bright. but thank you for your input.

I would take a look at the Wybron Nexera. For less than the price of a Sea Changer you get a zoom ellipsoidal CMY color changer. It is a fixed fixture, no movement, but the color changing will give you lots of use. We had a space with 36 dimmers and hated it, we actually bought a dozen ETC dimmer doublers. Once we got the Nexera's, we had a lot more room for specials and other effect in our system. I personally think Wybron is one of the tops in their customer support as well. I have had a dozen for 5 years without a single problem. Uses three DMX channels plus a dimmer channel. Will require a power supply and some 4-pin cable.

 

[Les]

I am actually a teacher. I am an art teacher but they hired me to look over the kids and just be an "adult figure". (its really so they don't kill themselves. I have called martin and they are willing to work with us we are able to get 8 of them for under 7k... and the demo we tried was pretty bright. but thank you for your input.

Oh, so you are literally a moderator! One brave dude you are! If you do look more closely at the Martin 101, be sure to get a demo and test it on stage. Really put it through the wringer. Hang it on the furthest position you think you will use it from, bring up some lighting to simulate a scene, and make sure it is still effective in different situations.

The Wybron Nexeras are good lights, and very theatre-friendly. I'd give them a look.

 

[gafftaper]

I always forget the Nexras. They definitely do deserve consideration along with the Scrollers and Seachangers.

What sort of light board do you have? Unless you have a fairly recent and higher quality console (which most high schools don't) you are going to be in a world of pain programming those Martins. Movers are sexy but they are not at all practical for the vast majority of high school theaters.

EDIT: Why do you want a moving wash light? The point of a wash light is that it washes a large portion of the stage. Do you do a lot of concerts with a hazer? Having the hazer will pick up the difference in position of the light beam in the air. Without a hazer you won't see shafts of light moving. If your goal is to add a lot of color then I would much rather spend that $7000 on a set of LED strip lights and light the whole stage. If I remember right there are some moderate quality LED strip lights for around $700 each. 10 of those will blow away the light output of 7 mac 101's.

Also note, I think just about everyone here agrees that the only LED product on the market right now that is useful for theatrical front light are the ETC Seledors. They are the only LED capable of producing a good quality white light as well as subtle pastel colors. All the other LED fixtures are awesome for dramatic backlight and downlight but you don't want to shine them on someone's face from the front. The Seledors are also very pricey.

Finally consider Elation LED's. They've been working really hard to improve the quality of their products for about 3 or 4 years now, especially in the area of LED's. No they don't have the prestige of the Martin name, but there are still some really bright LED products that are respectable and give good bang for the buck.

 

[shiben]

Also note, I think just about everyone here agrees that the only LED product on the market right now that is useful for theatrical front light are the ETC Seledors. They are the only LED capable of producing a good quality white light as well as subtle pastel colors. All the other LED fixtures are awesome for dramatic backlight and downlight but you don't want to shine them on someone's face from the front. The Seledors are also very pricey.

Finally consider Elation LED's. They've been working really hard to improve the quality of their products for about 3 or 4 years now, especially in the area of LED's. No they don't have the prestige of the Martin name, but there are still some really bright LED products that are respectable and give good bang for the buck.

Dont know about the frontlight thing, Some of those RGBAW (I think) BillESC had looked pretty decent for a really decent price. Not saying they rival the Seladors, but if your going to work on a budget and have a really nice color range, he might have some good ones to take a look at.

 

[Footer]

Also note, I think just about everyone here agrees that the only LED product on the market right now that is useful for theatrical front light are the ETC Seledors. They are the only LED capable of producing a good quality white light as well as subtle pastel colors. All the other LED fixtures are awesome for dramatic backlight and downlight but you don't want to shine them on someone's face from the front. The Seledors are also very pricey.

The Reveal CW fixture by Prism Projections is currently the closest out there. ETC Selandor is really just a colorblast on crack (Not saying that is a bad thing!).

As far a what to buy to the OP, I have not priced out a scroller package in awhile. Depending on your dimmer capacity that might be the best way to go. You could probably pick up a dozen scroller, power supplies, and cable for that amount.

 

[soundlight]

Ask anyone who I work with and they'll tell you that I love the MAC101s. However, they're not really great for theater. The light can be a bit splotchy at shorter throws, especially when you're shining it on to sets and people at an angle. The color spectrum lacks critical things for theater like a good warm white and a good amber and a couple other colors. It's also a very narrow beam. I thusly wouldn't really recommend it for theatrical purposes.

Given your budget, I'd get some scrollers. And maybe some rotators. If you get the Apollo Smart Color scrollers and Smart Move DMX rotators, they can run from the same power supply with the same 4pin cable. And if you want movement, get a Rosco I-Cue or 2 for moving specials and they can run off the same power supply! Now you can't mix the I-Cues and the Scrollers because of the way the I-Cue mounts and how wide the beam would be once the I-Cue is moved farther away from the fixture. However, you can use the rotators in the same fixtures as the scrollers or the i-cues, so you can get some cool stuff going on if the kids want to have some fun. This setup also makes a great bag of tricks to spread around the rig for most theatrical shows at that level.

All of this is well and good if you have a console that can control if properly - what light board do you have in the space?

 

[SteveB]

What's your current control desk ?.

Most anything can easily control a scroller, maybe an LED fixed focus, but the minute you get into wiggle lights you want a control end that makes it work. An Express is not the desk for that, an Element would be. So before you invest in the Martins, think hard about what a PITA they are going to be on an Express/Innovator/Lehigh controller.

 

[derekleffew]

...Now you can't mix the I-Cues and the Scrollers because of the way the I-Cue mounts and how wide the beam would be once the I-Cue is moved farther away from the fixture. ...

http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...scrollers-i-cues-auto-iris-sf.html#post181208

 

[shiben]

Given the choice, I would get Apollo Right Arms instead of I-Cues. Mainly because There is no end to the problems that I have had with ICues in the past. I know they do what they need to, but they are kind of a pain. Given ICues or nothing, I would take them in a heartbeat. But Given the choice of the two, Right Arm all the way.

 

[LXPlot]

1) Martin just released the MAC Aura which seems to me to be the replacement or at least similar to the 101s, maybe thats why you get them so cheap.

2)The "lamp" price thought is irrelevant because they're LEDs, which are likely to last a very long time and can't be replaced at any rate.

3)I would not use Seladors for front light given other alternatives. I'd almost rather use Cygnus's or something like PARs. Haven't personally demoed a 101, so not sure there.

4)ICues are good so long as you have a fairly long throw distance, and Source Fours that are 19 degrees. I don't believe any other sizes are well supported. Right arms are slower, but far superior. Although, you can get icues in the 400-600 range, and right arms cost much more.

 

[soundlight]

1) Martin just released the MAC Aura which seems to me to be the replacement or at least similar to the 101s, maybe thats why you get them so cheap.

Not really a replacement so much as an addition. The Aura has quite the different featureset (quad color homogenized mixing and a wide zoom), and at about twice the cost of the 101, I don't think the 101s are going anywhere soon, especially with how recently they were released and how popular they are already. Martin is trying to pus the 101s in 8-pack cases, so that's where the deals are right now. I've never heard of them as cheaply as the OP has stated though.

2)The "lamp" price thought is irrelevant because they're LEDs, which are likely to last a very long time and can't be replaced at any rate.

True, however again, the 101s are at fault as LEDs because the color mixing is quite lacking given an only RGB range to work with.

3)I would not use Seladors for front light given other alternatives. I'd almost rather use Cygnus's or something like PARs. Haven't personally demoed a 101, so not sure there.

Have you demo'd Seladors? They'd be great for a frontlight wash application! And the spread lenses make them even more useful from any position. Not for this budget, though. They do also make the D40 and D60 Desire series now which is a more LED PAR form factor.

4)ICues are good so long as you have a fairly long throw distance, and Source Fours that are 19 degrees. I don't believe any other sizes are well supported. Right arms are slower, but far superior. Although, you can get icues in the 400-600 range, and right arms cost much more.

I have used I-Cues with a 26 degree beam angle fixture, but nothing wider. I think that I irised down the 26 just a touch to keep it all on the mirror. I never had problems with them, and they are definitely much cheaper than the Right Arms. The Right Arms do have their place (S4 Par NSP with a scroller being my favorite), but I prefer I-Cues for ellipsoidals.