Control/Dimming CD80 analog house light control

[Banderson]

Hi all,
My theater currently is running house lights off a rheostat dimmer near one of the operating positions. We commonly turn them on to suppliment our work lights.

What I would love to do is reroute them to a free dimmer in the rack and control them through one of the 0-10v control channels available. This would allow us to control them with our element rather than the aging rheostat they are currently on. We are running a CD80 AE dimmer rack. The manual for the dimmer rack is moderatly helpful, but I still have questions.

I am fine with the manual control being only on/off since we only really need to dim them during a show when they would be controlled by the element. Can I just buy a 10v power supply and put a switch on it? Can anyone clear up where in the terminal strip the control wires would connect? I imagine dc polarity may be important. In order to "patch" the 0-10v control to a specific dimmer do I need the proprietary hand held controller I read about in the manual or is there another method? Perhaps they are mapped to specific dimmers by default?

Any information is greatly appreciated.

-BAnderson

ps. Typed on a phone- please forgive the typos I'm sure are in here.

 

[FMEng]

The DC control can be worked out. The problem is going to be finding the handheld programmer, and someone that knows how to use one. All I can suggest is to check with your local Strand dealer.

The other option would be to go to a DMX houselight station that merges DMX from your lighting console.

 

[JD]

Hi all,
My theater currently is running house lights off a rheostat dimmer near one of the operating positions.

Rheostat?
This can actually be read many ways, so let's clear up what you have. An old style Rheostat was a large resistance dimmer with a big handle. Pretty sure it's not one of those. Rheostat often refers to one of three types of house-light controls; One is simply an all-in-one dimmer with a knob on the front. Much like a regular home depot wall dimmer but with a much higher capacity such as 1000 to 2400 watts. The other is an up-down switch that rests at the center position. Push it upwards, and the lights slowly come up to full brightness. Push it down and they slowly fade to black. In older systems there was often a remote stack of autotransformers driven by a motor that the switch operated. In some newer systems (1980 to 95), there would be a remote motor that actually turned a small variable resistor that fed a regular analog solid state dimmer. (I guess this was a compromise for customers that liked the old system!) Finally, There is simply what looks like a volume control that basically produced a proportionate DC voltage which is fed to a regular dimmer.
So, for starters, let's figure out which you have. If it is any of the types that rely on a regular analog solid state dimmer, there is probably an easy answer.

 

[microstar]

There are DMX wall stations available from Fleenor (Pre10A), Lightronics, and Johnson Systems, to name a few. All a bit pricey for simple control if you don't need a lot of presets. If you're handy, the Northlight DMX merge-2 is only $95; you have to supply power supply and a case. You could get a cheap 6-channel DMX console like the Elation SDC-12 at $89 which has selectable DMX starting address , merge that with your Element, and have a pretty neat system.

 

[Banderson]

By rheostat I do mean an all in one dimmer with a knob similar to a home depot wall dimmer. I say it's aging because it can flicker a bit when actively turning the knob. It's a little embarrassing. If I were one of our patrons I would give a little eye roll when the house dims.

We don't have the budget for a dmx wall station like a johnson systems product. Thats why I was hoping to make this upgrade using parts that are less expensive, utilizing the functions of the dimmer rack that we already own.

I take it from FMEng's response that there is no getting around the need for that handheld programmer.

As far as wall panel functionality I really just need on/off for just the house lights. We never need stage lights unless my PM or I are there and running the console.

 

[JD]

What type of "panic" light system do you have? Is it separate from this control? If so, I would just have an electrician run a hard line back to the dimmer rack for you and eliminate the wall dimmer. All public performance spaces require some form of "panic" light system so that the building can be lit during an emergency from an easy access location. You might want to check with your fire marshal before doing any work. Be aware, he may consider the current system insufficient. Local codes vary quite a bit on this.

 

[Casey]

My recommendation is to contact your local dealer. You will likely need some bits and pieces to make this all work, and if your dealer is any good they will be happy to come out and take a look.

Reading through all of the posts here, there is definitely something missing in this system layout and any dealer will be able to get you set up.

CD80 is a strand product, and if it is 0-10v it is likely very old (CD80 dimmers tend to last forever). There are many ways to interface DMX to 0-10v (demultiplexer) from pathway, Doug fleenor, and others. I don't think your solution will be a strand product so anyone can help you out.

And lastly, there is some working with voltage involved, so bringing on a 'professional' to look it over before you get started is really a good idea.

 

[RickR]

There are simple wall mount 0-10v control dimmers. Most are 'sinking' type so look over that manual carefully. http://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/3672530_0-10V_Brochure.pdf

It's also quite likely that your console is using DMX or AMX and that the dimmers will respond to both simultaneously. If so then this could be 'relatively' easy. An electrician is mandatory, hopefully you won't need a building permit as well.

 

[FMEng]

I should have explained a bit more (I was short on time when I wrote before). The CD80AE has 0-10 V inputs, but the rack has to be programmed to know which inputs control which dimmers. Without that programming, those inputs won't do anything. The Strand handheld programmer is the only way do the rack setup. It is possible to find someone with the capability of doing the programming, but it could be costly unless they are local.

If a person with the programmer can't be found, the best solution is to use the DMX input, which I assume is being used for a lighting console. I supposed it could be AMX, but the vintage 1993 CD80AE I am intimately familiar with uses DMX.

If you do get the 0-10 V inputs mapped, then we can talk about how to brew up a simple control station to use with them. That wouldn't be hard to do if you are handy with a soldering iron.

 

[Banderson]

Thanks FMEng. That is the answer I was looking for.