Control/Dimming CD80 DMX Retrofit

[LightTech]

My school recently purchased an ETC Element. Since the CD80 is an AMX dimmer rack, we also purchased a DMX-AMX converter. Every since then we've had a string of problems. At random times, lights will turn on and the only way to turn them off is to plug in the old console. Also, occasionally when I turn of the Element, lights will turn on at a very low level (10-15%). The problem seems to be in the conversion. We don't have the budget to upgrade the entire rack.

I was told about a company that retrofits CD80s called Johnson Systems Inc.

Does anyone here have this? Any idea of the price point? Any other recommendations?

Thanks,
Jack

 

[Gern]

My school recently purchased an ETC Element. Since the CD80 is an AMX dimmer rack, we also purchased a DMX-AMX converter. Every since then we've had a string of problems. At random times, lights will turn on and the only way to turn them off is to plug in the old console. Also, occasionally when I turn of the Element, lights will turn on at a very low level (10-15%). The problem seems to be in the conversion. We don't have the budget to upgrade the entire rack.

I was told about a company that retrofits CD80s called Johnson Systems Inc.

Does anyone here have this? Any idea of the price point? Any other recommendations?

Thanks,
Jack

Yes, I'm using Doug Fleenor's DMX to AMX converter, into a Johnson CD2000 converted CD80 rack(14door 609 slot) here @ Paramount Pictures. I'll ask Electric Shop if they know the price. Paramount also just did a retro on the next stage with the newer Johnson CD3000. These systems-Doug Fleenor's DMX to AMX converter, into a Johnson CD2000- work fine. The Rack itself seems to bog down when big loads are brought up, so I use long slow manual fades or timing to get there. If I had to "rock out" with this rig I'd be holding my breath, especially with my history of hearing "Gern FASTER!" Luckily I rarely have an audience. Crew Only, lol.

 

[mstaylor]

Also, search the site, there have been a couple of threads covering converting CD80s. The Fleener/Johnson seems to be the best solution but there less expensive routes.

 

[derekleffew]

Yes, I'm using Doug Fleenor's DMX to AMX converter, into a Johnson CD2000 converted CD80 rack(14door 609 slot) here @ Paramount Pictures. ...

Can you explain more?, as I thought a DMX-AMX converter was contra-indicated/redundant with a CD2000.

See also the threads
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...light-boards-compatible-cd80-dimmer-rack.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/14596-dmx-cd-80-control.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/16394-cd80-questions.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/7422-amx-systems.html

 

[Gern]

Can you explain more?, as I thought a DMX-AMX converter was contra-indicated/redundant with a CD2000.

See also the threads
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/...light-boards-compatible-cd80-dimmer-rack.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/14596-dmx-cd-80-control.html
http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/16394-cd80-questions.html

I'd love to explain more, but then my stupid would be showing...
Yeah, as if you didn't already know!
I could explain it if I was a slight fraction as intelligent as you folks, that I respect.
This rig was in place when I got this show, and frankly, I don't know the correct answer, yet, but I shall ask when 40 Shop answers my message. I wasn't aware that something here is redundant or not needed(laughung at myself)
The only thing I did to this part of the rig: The converter & opti's where sitting awkwardly on the cardboard boxes. I brought in the gray table and placed them on it.

 

[mstaylor]

Derrick is right, it is an either/or solution. That's what I get for repeating what I have read about but not used. It sounds like what Gern may have is a Johnson conversion for his dimmers and a Fleener opti-splitter. Take pictures and let us look.

 

[Gern]

Derrick is right, it is an either/or solution. That's what I get for repeating what I have read about but not used. It sounds like what Gern may have is a Johnson conversion for his dimmers and a Fleener opti-splitter. Take pictures and let us look.

Hmm, maybe the DF converter was in use prior to the Johnson System install, then not removed?

 

[TimMiller]

There is a dmx to amx board that can be installed in the rack. The Johnson retro fit will run about 7000. I bet the converter is cheap or not working correctly. If you get a doug fleenor or etc converter the problems should go away.

 

[aemeeich]

My school recently purchased an ETC Element. Since the CD80 is an AMX dimmer rack, we also purchased a DMX-AMX converter. Every since then we've had a string of problems. At random times, lights will turn on and the only way to turn them off is to plug in the old console. Also, occasionally when I turn of the Element, lights will turn on at a very low level (10-15%). The problem seems to be in the conversion. We don't have the budget to upgrade the entire rack.

I was told about a company that retrofits CD80s called Johnson Systems Inc.

Does anyone here have this? Any idea of the price point? Any other recommendations?

Thanks,
Jack

I had a similar problem at the school I work at when we upgraded from a Strand Lightboard M to an ETC Express.

We have 9 of the 12 channel packs installed each with a AMX card. The cost to replace all 9 cards with Johnson DMX cards was quite pricey, so we bought a Doug Fleenor DMX-AMX converter and left the existing AMX cards. We encountered the exact same problems that you are experiencing, although it seemed to only affect one pack consistently, and a second pack occasionally.

We ended up trying out the converter that our local shop had in their rental inventory which was a Gray Ultimate Converter and that worked perfectly. They took back the Doug Fleenor converter, put that in their inventory, and gave us the Gray Ultimate Converter instead. I did have some conversations with Doug Fleenor, but all they said was their converter was outputting a compliant signal and there was nothing they could do about it. (I do agree that their signal was complaint, and that it was the CD 80 card that was misbehaving).

My dad and I looked at the AMX output of both units on a scope and we did spot a slight timing difference, but I don't remember exactly which part of the AMX string was different. I'll call him tomorrow and see if he remembers what we did with the print-outs of the scope captures.

Michael

 

[FMEng]

If you can afford it, the Johnson retrofit will give you long term reliability. The control section of your CD80 is old and likely to eventually fail. But, the dimmer modules, and everything else, are quite robust and cheaply repaired now and in the future. The Johnson retrofit replaces everything that has high failure rates due to age while giving you DMX.

Or, to put it another way, a new DMX to AMX converter is the less expensive, short term solution. The Johnson is a long term investment.

 

[chausman]

I did have some conversations with Doug Fleenor, but all they said was their converter was outputting a complaint signal and there was nothing they could do about it. (I do agree that their signal was complaint, and that it was the CD 80 card that was misbehaving).

Outputting a complaint signal?

Is that supposed to say compliant?

 

[derekleffew]

Outputting a complaint signal?

Is that supposed to say compliant?

To qoute from one of the greats..."Oh, you and your fancy words with letters that have to go in a specific order!"

...My dad and I looked at the DMX output of both units on a scope and we did spot a slight timing difference, but I don't remember exactly which part of the DMX string was different. I'll call him tomorrow and see if he remembers what we did with the print-outs of the scope captures.

You mean AMX signal?
From Pathway Connectivity Inc. - Lighting Control Protocols - Part 2 :

Interfacing Hints -
Anyone who has dealt with AMX192 gear for any length of time will tell you that they've had more than their share of problems getting things to communicate properly. No one console, for example, will talk to all receivers out there, and vice versa. The age and condition of receiver cards and power supplies can affect how well the data link works. The type and length of cable can also be a factor when changing to a different transmitter, such as a protocol converter. Just because your old Mantrix worked fine with your old CD80, it doesn't mean your new converter is no good because it doesn't. Designers of new AMX controls usually pick a set of signal timing parameters that are known to work well with most of the existing dimmer racks; you might just be one of the unlucky ones that gets a mismatch. Ask your supplier to let you test other makes of converters; at least one is likely to do the job.

 

[aemeeich]

You mean AMX signal?

Yes I meant AMX signal. Original post corrected.

 

[Gern]

I'm told that only 2 racks of my system where given the Johnson retro-fit. The remainder is using the DF DMX-AMX converter. Several shows ago they wanted to use those 2 racks- that where not functional- and this was the quickest way to get them up & running. The Strand system was installed mid 1980's.

 

[Lotos]

We're using several CD80's, some DMX (factory) and some AMX...
When switching from our older console (Strand LBX) to a newer board (Marquee ILC)... The DMX -> AMX convertor (Grey Interface) didn't want to play ball anymore... It was sending out a signal that the CD80's no longer liked...
A new converter was purchased (ETC branded, am unsure of the specific mode; this second..) everything was happy.
The same holds true for our current Strand Palette VL console (since really, it's just a repackaged ILC)...

Sometimes, somehow, it seems that it's not only the converter at fault... But the way the console talks to it.

 

[derekleffew]

...A new converter was purchased (ETC branded, am unsure of the specific mode; this second..) everything was happy.
The same holds true for our current Strand Palette VL console (since really, it's just a repackaged ILC)...

Oh, the irony! Strand console can't control Strand dimmers without an ETC box (Response Converter) in the middle.

Not the first occurrence of this incidence, either:

... After a MLP, we bought one of the early 520's. Aside from the DMX ports, it came with one AMX port, but it wouldn't drive the Strand CD-80's very well. Some software clock issue was going on and they would all blink/burp every so often. Taking a DMX port through the ETC Converter resolved it. So the Strand dimmers preferred an ETC signal. Go figure. ...

ETC peeps: WHY was the Response line [-]abandoned[/-] discontinued? It seems to me you just gave away that market segment to Fleenor and Pathway (not that there's anything wrong with those companies). LMI's "black boxes" were legendary, and truly magical.

 

[FatherMurphy]

Another possibility that's worth checking is to make sure the cabling is wired properly. A couple flopped pins or wrong shielding types, and anything can happen.

Strand does make retrofit kits to bring the older CD-80 racks up to current electronics, but they are a bit more expensive than the Johnson rebrains. However, usually Strand will then put the entire rack under warranty for a year, not just the new processor. the convertor boxes are the cheapest way to mate a new console to an old rack, but you still have the old processors giving you grief.

 

[LightTech]

I had a similar problem at the school I work at when we upgraded from a Strand Lightboard M to an ETC Express.

We have 9 of the 12 channel packs installed each with a AMX card. The cost to replace all 9 cards with Johnson DMX cards was quite pricey, so we bought a Doug Fleenor DMX-AMX converter and left the existing AMX cards. We encountered the exact same problems that you are experiencing, although it seemed to only affect one pack consistently, and a second pack occasionally.

We ended up trying out the converter that our local shop had in their rental inventory which was a Gray Ultimate Converter and that worked perfectly. They took back the Doug Fleenor converter, put that in their inventory, and gave us the Gray Ultimate Converter instead. I did have some conversations with Doug Fleenor, but all they said was their converter was outputting a compliant signal and there was nothing they could do about it. (I do agree that their signal was complaint, and that it was the CD 80 card that was misbehaving).

My dad and I looked at the AMX output of both units on a scope and we did spot a slight timing difference, but I don't remember exactly which part of the AMX string was different. I'll call him tomorrow and see if he remembers what we did with the print-outs of the scope captures.

Michael

We also upgraded from a Lightboard M. Thanks. I will look into those convertors.

 

[LightTech]

We also upgraded from a Lightboard M. Thanks. I will look into those convertors.

The DMX-AMX covertor that is giving us the problems is an Lightronics TX-30.

 

[Footer]

Another possibility that's worth checking is to make sure the cabling is wired properly. A couple flopped pins or wrong shielding types, and anything can happen.

Strand does make retrofit kits to bring the older CD-80 racks up to current electronics, but they are a bit more expensive than the Johnson rebrains. However, usually Strand will then put the entire rack under warranty for a year, not just the new processor. the convertor boxes are the cheapest way to mate a new console to an old rack, but you still have the old processors giving you grief.

I've used both, and they both work great. I have installed one of the Johnson units, it takes about 20 minutes. The strand units seem to take a bit longer, but I was not the one who installed it. However, the stand units give you the exact same interace as the C21 racks. You get shownet, 2 DMX ins, reporting, architectural controls, etc. Either way, its cheaper then installing a whole new rack.