Cell phone jammer on the same freq as wireless mics?

[Anonymous067]

Cool. And that's fine...really, it is.

All I'm going to say in response is our mics aren't on the spectrum local emergency response *could* be using. Yes, believe it or not, I've checked.

And for anyone who wants to say I don't understand the emergency response system, I am not only a trained EMT-B, but a first responder TRAINER.

thank you,

 

[jstroming]

Anonymous067,

I'm not one of the die-hard "you must follow this rule or will be thrown in prison" type people (trust me) but there are many federal agencies who could conceivably be involved in your location who I'm sure you didn't call, like Hotch and Gideon from the BAU chasing a serial killer or something.

I agree the chances of getting prosecuted for this are next to nil, unless you're the reason the FBI failed to prevent the next 9/11. Chances are you'll get a C&D letter from some fat-cat government lawyer. At that point go to the "powers that be" in your facility and they'll listen, if it ever comes down to that, which again isn't likely. Don't be malicious and call the FCC yourself because that's dumb, although I'm sure some obnoxious technician somewhere in this country has threatened or maybe even done it.

People still use mics in the 700mHz range, perhaps because they don't know about the ban (not everyone knows about Control Booth unfortunately!) or perhaps because they do traveling shows in and out the same day and the chances of them getting caught are extremely low. Hey, not saying it's moral, but plenty of people do it.

I own mics that span 680-710 (user adjustable) and I didn't get rid of them. I was told by an audio friend that technically the law bans the use of any equipment that COULD operate in that frequency (don't know, didn't read it!) but as an educated professional you gauge the risk and do what you deem necessary. I mean come on who hasn't daisy-chained a power strip!!!

 

[Anonymous067]

Anonymous067,

I'm not one of the die-hard "you must follow this rule or will be thrown in prison" type people (trust me) but there are many federal agencies who could conceivably be involved in your location who I'm sure you didn't call, like Hotch and Gideon from the BAU chasing a serial killer or something.

I agree the chances of getting prosecuted for this are next to nil, unless you're the reason the FBI failed to prevent the next 9/11. Chances are you'll get a C&D letter from some fat-cat government lawyer. At that point go to the "powers that be" in your facility and they'll listen, if it ever comes down to that, which again isn't likely. Don't be malicious and call the FCC yourself because that's dumb, although I'm sure some obnoxious technician somewhere in this country has threatened or maybe even done it.

People still use mics in the 700mHz range, perhaps because they don't know about the ban (not everyone knows about Control Booth unfortunately!) or perhaps because they do traveling shows in and out the same day and the chances of them getting caught are extremely low. Hey, not saying it's moral, but plenty of people do it.

I own mics that span 680-710 (user adjustable) and I didn't get rid of them. I was told by an audio friend that technically the law bans the use of any equipment that COULD operate in that frequency (don't know, didn't read it!) but as an educated professional you gauge the risk and do what you deem necessary. I mean come on who hasn't daisy-chained a power strip!!!

FWIW, I try my best not to use the half of my mics that are illegals. I tell people, I push it. I understand the situation.

this "friend" however is incorrect, as there is not "law"-hate to the terminology freak, but law just isn't correct. Mike will be along shortly to give us the correct word, but the FCC doesn't make laws...

I think we're on the same page here, believe it or not.

One last thing, I don't own, nor do I use, a cell phone jammer. If you got this impression, please re-read the thread. You have bad information, if you think I'm using one.

 

[mstaylor]

The FCC has Rules and Regulations. Can you get in trouble for breaking them, absolutely.

 

[Anonymous067]

The FCC has Rules and Regulations. Can you get in trouble for breaking them, absolutely.

Never did I say you couldn't get into trouble. Just that the FCC doesn't have laws.

 

[museav]

People still use mics in the 700mHz range, perhaps because they don't know about the ban (not everyone knows about Control Booth unfortunately!) or perhaps because they do traveling shows in and out the same day and the chances of them getting caught are extremely low. Hey, not saying it's moral, but plenty of people do it.

Advocating "it's only wrong if you get caught" or "it's okay if others do it" philosophies in a forum focused on education is probably best avoided. And while ignorance is not a defense for violating the law, someone continuing to operate 700MHz wireless systems due to ignorance is probably ethically and morally a different situation than someone continuing to do so with the knowledge that the operation is expressly prohibited. Personally, these are the issues that worry me with schools and churches continuing to use 700MHz wireless systems as in many of those situations that is not just a conscious decision, but one may be taken by students and members as reflecting the beliefs and perspective being advocated by the schools and churches.

I own mics that span 680-710 (user adjustable) and I didn't get rid of them. I was told by an audio friend that technically the law bans the use of any equipment that COULD operate in that frequency (don't know, didn't read it!) but as an educated professional you gauge the risk and do what you deem necessary. I mean come on who hasn't daisy-chained a power strip!!!

Not all CB members are educated professionals, many are in the process of obtaining that education, some very early in that process. I also believe that many CB members making such decisions would actually be putting others at risk rather than themselves, a factor that should be considered.


People seem to forget that by far the vast majority of wireless microphone systems were not operating legally (or within the rules and regulations) until after the 700Mhz spectrum ban was already in place. The fact is that except for the limited number of licensed users, the FCC didn't really take anything away and nothing really changed with the 700MHz spectrum ban other than the FCC clarifying and enforcing what had always been true, that unlicensed RF system use in that spectrum was prohibited.

 

[mstaylor]

Never did I say you couldn't get into trouble. Just that the FCC doesn't have laws.

I understand that either can get you in trouble, I thought it was asked why they called their requirements, that would be rules and regs. We live under way more regulations than laws, between the FCC,SEC,NEC and a ton of other code enforcement agencies. Fire, plumbing, building and many others.

 

[Anonymous067]

I understand that either can get you in trouble, I thought it was asked why they called their requirements, that would be rules and regs. We live under way more regulations than laws, between the FCC,SEC,NEC and a ton of other code enforcement agencies. Fire, plumbing, building and many others.

My point still stands. I never argued that the FCC can't get you in trouble. Simply that they aren't called laws. Period. That's ALL I said

 

[DuckJordan]

My point still stands. I never argued that the FCC can't get you in trouble. Simply that they aren't called laws. Period. That's ALL I said

You are correct they aren't laws, but they are enforced by the law to the extent of the FCC's determination of what should happen if the rules are enforced. But the FCC has a way of being a semi-law because when they dictate that 700mhz systems are not to be used by any civilian for personal use, and basically open it up for businesses and emergency responders to use. It becomes not the rule that you are infringing upon but the law, generally its conscious interference of emergency responders. And just because your local Emergency responders don't use the frequency traveling ones may use it.


This isn't an attack on you, it was never meant to be, its here for educational purpose of letting newer educated youth in the entertainment industry understand that if they get a hold of 700mhz equipment they should not use it. While i did post about upward nose turning a while ago no-one on here has seemed to personally attack you at all.

If I was in your situation, I would be looking for a different job with another company, and when you get the other job you can let your bosses know that you won't work for them while they blatantly ignore safety concerns.

 

[Anonymous067]

You are correct they aren't laws, but they are enforced by the law to the extent of the FCC's determination of what should happen if the rules are enforced. But the FCC has a way of being a semi-law because when they dictate that 700mhz systems are not to be used by any civilian for personal use, and basically open it up for businesses and emergency responders to use. It becomes not the rule that you are infringing upon but the law, generally its conscious interference of emergency responders. And just because your local Emergency responders don't use the frequency traveling ones may use it.


This isn't an attack on you, it was never meant to be, its here for educational purpose of letting newer educated youth in the entertainment industry understand that if they get a hold of 700mhz equipment they should not use it. While i did post about upward nose turning a while ago no-one on here has seemed to personally attack you at all.

If I was in your situation, I would be looking for a different job with another company, and when you get the other job you can let your bosses know that you won't work for them while they blatantly ignore safety concerns.

My remarks regarding the no emergency responders using the frequencies in the area was merely me trying to not feel guilty, if you will. (can't think of a better way to phrase that). I wouldn't knowingly (yeah, somebody will quote this and use this word against me) interfere with them, and I wouldn't encourage other people to do so either.

I do however, find the point that Brad made interesting which is that everybody was actually just as illegal as the 700Mhz "users" prior to the new regulations going into effect, anyways.

 

[MNicolai]

I do however, find the point that Brad made interesting which is that everybody was actually just as illegal as the 700Mhz "users" prior to the new regulations going into effect, anyways.

This was the case because so many people had wireless microphones and while most were for unlicensed use, they were typically ignored unless you were interfering with licensed use. Licensed use was so minimal and isolated (think news stations and football stadiums) that it was usually a non-issue. Most cases resulted in C&D letters, and fines were usually not used unless unlicensed users persisted to interfere after they had already been notified.

The things have changed and made the FCC far merciless towards unlicensed 700MHz operations are:

• "I didn't know" became an unacceptable excuse with the high publicity and attention this policy had for the several years that it was in the works.
• Interference with licensed users is likely to directly affect communications for people working in public safety positions, where understanding or not understanding the person on the other end of the radio can make the difference between life and death. No longer is interference seen as "just an inconvenience".
• The situations where licensed users may be affected is widespread. Before, licensed users were typically found in entertainment facilities like stadiums, news stations, and maybe the occasional opera hall. Now, the licensed users are all over the map. They might be responding to a fire at someone's house, trying to get to someone who has just had a heart attack on the subway, or they could be responding to an emergency in an arena where just a few years ago their fancy new radios would've been picking up the voice of an announcer.

This isn't a simple, "We were blind and now we see" realization that made the FCC suddenly more concerned about 700MHz users. The stakes have risen significantly and what used to be more of an inconvenience now could be the difference between whether or not someone dies. On 9/11, there were plenty of problems with communication and the radios that firefighters had. I guarantee if a tragedy of that scale happened again today and communications problems were the direct result of some community theatre with their wireless mic's turned on, they'd be made an example of they would've wished they had forked over the money originally to have their mic's replaced.

 

[Anonymous067]

I give up, seeing that people have clearly mis-interpreted my intent in my recent posts.

Whatever.

 

[mbenonis]

Mike will be along shortly to give us the correct word, but the FCC doesn't make laws...

Strictly speaking, the FCC doesn't do anything until it's published in the Federal Register, which typically happens 30-60 days after the FCC makes a ruling. Once it's in there, and don't quote me on this, I believe it does indeed have the full force of law. Government types would probably call it Administrative Law (one of four types of law, as I remember from Government class)

More light reading:
Federal Register - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rulemaking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[museav]

This isn't a simple, "We were blind and now we see" realization that made the FCC suddenly more concerned about 700MHz users. The stakes have risen significantly and what used to be more of an inconvenience now could be the difference between whether or not someone dies.

Very good points. And while not the same as people's lives, the FCC also received billions of dollars through the auctions of the 700MHz spectrum with the bidders being provided the understanding that they were receiving exclusive use of the spectrum being awarded, so the FCC also added commitments to those parties. So there are indeed good reasons for the use of wireless systems in the 700MHz range now being perceived and enforced differently. My point was that unlicensed wireless system users who seem to feel the FCC is taking away their being able to operate in the 698-806MHz spectrum, and there seem to be many out there, need to understand not only why their operation is being prohibited but also that they never actually had any right to be operating there in the first place. You can't really lose something you never had.

 

[mstaylor]

Very good points. And while not the same as people's lives, the FCC also received billions of dollars through the auctions of the 700MHz spectrum with the bidders being provided the understanding that they were receiving exclusive use of the spectrum being awarded, so the FCC also added commitments to those parties. So there are indeed good reasons for the use of wireless systems in the 700MHz range now being perceived and enforced differently. My point was that unlicensed wireless system users who seem to feel the FCC is taking away their being able to operate in the 698-806MHz spectrum, and there seem to be many out there, need to understand not only why their operation is being prohibited but also that they never actually had any right to be operating there in the first place. You can't really lose something you never had.

Go ahead and confuse the issue with facts.

 

[Anonymous067]

Go ahead and confuse the issue with facts.

How are the facts confusing? I understood what Brad said perfectly fine.

 

[mstaylor]

It is a joke that means he is stating the exact truth but people will argue anyway.

 

[MNicolai]

It is a joke that means he is stating the exact truth but people will argue anyway.

That sounds about right. When a person spends tens of thousands of dollars on wireless mic's, there's a certain de facto feeling of entitlement that people feel they have to operate that equipment and "not no one, especially not the FCC or the government" has the authority to step in and say otherwise.

People don't think about microphones like they think of guns, but they really are quite similar. Just because at some point you bought a few, doesn't mean you can use them without a license or permit and you especially shouldn't be recklessly waving them around in public unless you fully understand the possible repercussions of your actions. No matter how long you've owned the gear, at just about any point in time the FCC can step in and say, "Stop doing that," and that's about the end of the argument unless you want to spend a lot of time in a court battle you'll probably lose.

 

[Chris15]

So if anyone wanted proof that jammers work on wireless audio as effectively as they do on mobile phones, have a look at the missed heart beats caused at the Commonwelath Games, Norwest Productions, second last paragraph before the credits...

 

[Edrick]

Dont you jam those signals

I remember a few months back someone here was discussing the use of a Cell Phone jammer to keep phones out of their theater.

FCC going after cellphone jammers, could land users in the slammer -- Engadget

Don't try it! as I'm sure was said in the topic.


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