Mixers/Consoles Digital Console on a budget

[JoshThomas]

Looking for a digital sound console for my high school. 32 inputs is a good size for us however our budget is a somewhat pathetic $5000. We don't need a ton of special features however the ability to save snapshots/scenes is important to us. As well, a digital stage box controlled over Ethernet or otherwise would be beneficial. A local company has recommended and quoted for us a Soundcraft Expression console with a stage box. Not sure if this is a good option?

We currently use a Yamaha digital console, and I am concerned there would be a drop in audio quality if we move to a low-end digital console.

What would you guys recommend for us in our price range?

 

[TheaterEd]

Looks like the Roland M-300 is right in your price range. Once you add in the digital snakes you might go a bit over budget though, so call up a rep and see if they can be flexible with the price at all.

 

[FMEng]

I'll take some flak for saying this, but sound quality is not the Yamaha's strength so almost anything else will sound better. Take a close look at the Behringer X32. The quality and sound are good, fits the budget, and doesn't leave off anything. The Si is probably easier to learn than the X32, but you are already getting along with the Yamaha, so that may not matter. The Roland has a reputation for poor sound and bargain basement features.

 

[jkowtko]

There aren't a whole lot of options at the low price point.
* Behringer X32 series ... despite their past reputation for producing cheap knockoffs, seems to have a good following with the X32 line. Several physical formats, but only 16 physical channel faders so you would have to use layers.

* Presonus live series mixers ... they make a 32 channel version. Faders are non-motorized though.

* Mackie has a new DL32R rack mixer ... but all soft UI, no physical faders

* Yamaha 01V96 series ... handles 32+ channels but only 16 physical faders so you have to use layers

* There are others such as Roland, but not as widely popular as the above four.

The digital console industry has been undergoing a transformation over the past several years as sound equipment slowly catches up on technology (it seems to lag several years behind the consumer electronics industry, most likely due to the comparatively low unit sales volumes). I think it's still going to be doing this for the next several years until everyone has digital snakes and optional smartpad controls in their product line. What would be great is to add modular hard fader banks (like the BCF2000 but better quality operation) so people can purchase a rack unit and then as much physical fader as they need.

For the short term I suggest you pick up something that doesn't break the bank, and expect to replace it within 3-5 years.

PS: I own a Yamaha 01V96v2 and a Mackie DL1608 ... both have been very good boards for me. However I'm itching to consolidate into a single 32-channel rack-only unit, so maybe be selling my two boards and picking up an X32rack or DL32R later this year.

 

[TheaterEd]

I'll take some flak for saying this, but sound quality is not the Yamaha's strength so almost anything else will sound better. Take a close look at the Behringer X32. The quality and sound are good, fits the budget, and doesn't leave off anything. The Si is probably easier to learn than the X32, but you are already getting along with the Yamaha, so that may not matter. The Roland has a reputation for poor sound and bargain basement features.

I never had a problem with the Roland, but if the x32 is in the budget I would go that routel. It seems to be a highly recommended board in these parts.

 

[JohnD]

The Behringer X32 has the advantage of LOTS of people using them. At soundforums.net, the X32 thread was over 500 pages last time I looked.
Another console to look at would be the Allen & Heath QU-32, I don't know if it is shipping yet but there are already lots of fans of both the QU-16 and the QU=24.

 

[StradivariusBone]

It's above your budget, but we just picked up a GLD-80 about a year ago for $7000. Allen and Heath continually do sales on this product where you'll get the AR2412 (the snake patchbay part) for free and then sometimes they throw in a cover and an iPad mini or something. Very easy to learn. Very student-friendly and forgiving. Audio quality is on par with other A&H boards I've encountered and in the top tier of equipment I've used. I would wager you might find a sale or a dealer that can help you out. The Qu series is good, but it seems more geared towards the studio atmosphere than live reinforcement. I'm sure it'd do a fine job, but you still need to buy the stage box for your dSnake.

I've heard really good things about the X32 as well. Behringer has gotten way better at QC, but on the other hand I'm still hearing random rumblings about issues with the X32, but it sounds like stuff they are fixing in software. I don't have specifics and so I won't talk bad about it, but if it were me purchasing it I'd definitely investigate the issues people are having with their boards. One of the dealers local to me is 100% opposed to them and another one loves them and sells them all the time. It'd be a good student board if nothing else since everyone and their uncle is buying them, it'd be good for the kids to be familiar with.

 

[JoshThomas]

I'll take some flak for saying this, but sound quality is not the Yamaha's strength so almost anything else will sound better. Take a close look at the Behringer X32. The quality and sound are good, fits the budget, and doesn't leave off anything. The Si is probably easier to learn than the X32, but you are already getting along with the Yamaha, so that may not matter. The Roland has a reputation for poor sound and bargain basement features.

My apologies I made a mistake in the original post. We are currently using a Yamaha ANALOG console. Not digital.

 

[Bubby4j]

We use a x32 in our church and I love it. I believe the most major issue we've had is that when we upgraded the board to 2.0 firmware, the backup of the board configuration wouldn't load so we had to redo everything.

 

[FMEng]

Behringer has gotten way better at QC, but on the other hand I'm still hearing random rumblings about issues with the X32, but it sounds like stuff they are fixing in software. I don't have specifics and so I won't talk bad about it, but if it were me purchasing it I'd definitely investigate the issues people are having with their boards. One of the dealers local to me is 100% opposed to them and another one loves them and sells them all the time. It'd be a good student board if nothing else since everyone and their uncle is buying them, it'd be good for the kids to be familiar with.

The user forums speak for themselves. There are no serious issues with X32 firmware. Any problems are very minor and Behringer seems to pay close attention and respond when users discover things or express desires for new or different features. Any new software or firmware release for something as complex as a digital console is going to have a glitch or two that won't be discovered until it goes into widespread use. The difference with the X32 is the sheer number of users and the number of discussion forums that react when something comes to light. I doubt any other digital console has ever sold in the same quantities.

Before I purchased mine, I spoke to the dealer, who sells everything from Mackie to Digico, about quality. His comment was that they occasionally had a dead on arrival console, but that if it works out of the box, they have very few problems. Is it the perfect console? Of course not. But the performance for price is what caused the whole industry to get a whole lot more competitive than it was.

All that said, a high school is an environment with a lot of user turn over so a console with an easy learning curve would be good. It would be worth spending some time playing with a few consoles before making a choice.

 

[gafftaper]

Part of the magic of the X32 is that they purchased Midas and incorporated a lot of the Midas technology into the Behringer world. With the mad success of the X32 they have just released the Midas M32 it's essentially the high end version of the same console. I haven't seen one yet but the rumors about it have been flying high for a while and it's definitely worth a look... and look it's only $4999 which is really cheap for a Midas quality console.

That said I love my GLD80. My buddy's theater just purchased one this last spring and they got an amazing deal on the mixer and a bunch of other stuff. So get a price quote!

 

[StradivariusBone]

The user forums speak for themselves. There are no serious issues with X32 firmware.

Like I said, I haven't researched it myself so I can't really say anything negative. The one dealer I mentioned received a DOA and I think he lost a sale as a result (not sure why he didn't just swap it out, but whatever). I've used a bunch of Behringer GEQ's for monitor mixes and been happy with the performance. An older one we had died, but I think that may have been exacerbated by a heat-issue in the cabinet. My church was toying with the idea of IEM's and looking at the Behringer P16 vs. the Avioms and at half the price it's appealing.

I wasn't meaning to trash Behringer, since the Midas deal things have been rocketing upward for them. Still though, I love me some A&H.

 

[Lextech]

Having mixed on both the Behringer and the SI Compact, same software as the Expression, go with the Soundcraft. For the beginner mixer the Soundcraft is SO much easier to get around on. Everything is easy to find, the FX are easy to use, color coded faders help you see what you are doing and for theatre the cueing just works. Plus it sounds better to my ears. The remote stage box works out of the box. But, if they are trying to sell you one make them loan you one and try it yourself.

 

[BillESC]

Happy X32 user here. Hard to beat for the money.

 

[Footer]

Like I said, I haven't researched it myself so I can't really say anything negative. The one dealer I mentioned received a DOA and I think he lost a sale as a result (not sure why he didn't just swap it out, but whatever). I've used a bunch of Behringer GEQ's for monitor mixes and been happy with the performance. An older one we had died, but I think that may have been exacerbated by a heat-issue in the cabinet. My church was toying with the idea of IEM's and looking at the Behringer P16 vs. the Avioms and at half the price it's appealing.

I wasn't meaning to trash Behringer, since the Midas deal things have been rocketing upward for them. Still though, I love me some A&H.

I have one of the oldest ones out there... mine just turned 2. Still going strong. Still works great. Still sounds good. Built an entire B-Rig around it for outside summer shows and it worked flawlessly. Spent the weekend running monitors on a Roland desk wishing I had the X32. Under 5k the X32 w/ 2 S16's really is a no brainier. I have ZERO hesitations about it.

 

[Edrick]

Having mixed on both the Behringer and the SI Compact, same software as the Expression, go with the Soundcraft. For the beginner mixer the Soundcraft is SO much easier to get around on. Everything is easy to find, the FX are easy to use, color coded faders help you see what you are doing and for theatre the cueing just works. Plus it sounds better to my ears. The remote stage box works out of the box. But, if they are trying to sell you one make them loan you one and try it yourself.

What complications have you had using the X32? I just got mine last week and haven't had a single issue figuring out how to navigate it.

 

[Dane Boulton]

To give my input

I currently work with a Roland M400 and two M300s in my theatre and they are rock solid absoloutely brilliant desks!
The X32 Is such a close competitor and has some features the rolands are lacking.

But the Rolands are brilliant quality desks and the preamps are fantastic on both the console and the stage boxes.
They are just such a fun and intuitive console to use I would definately recommend them

Good luck on your purchase

 

[Footer]

To give my input

I currently work with a Roland M400 and two M300s in my theatre and they are rock solid absoloutely brilliant desks!
The X32 Is such a close competitor and has some features the rolands are lacking.

But the Rolands are brilliant quality desks and the preamps are fantastic on both the console and the stage boxes.
They are just such a fun and intuitive console to use I would definately recommend them

Good luck on your purchase

The M480 is the only Rolland desk I would consider and it is still lacking compared to the X32. The M480 does have enough DSP to do whatever you want though which is rather nice. Your still playing in layers to much and the lack of the scribble strips is a real pain in the modern world we live in. Good desk at the time, but I put it in the LS9 pile now.

 

[FMEng]

Yes, layers without scribble strips would be a pain. It's kind of hard to mark faders for multiple sources with a sharpy and tape. It is also harder to read to find what you need quickly. This would not be a factor if the number of channels in use is equal or less than the number of faders.

 

[TimmyP1955]

You can get an X32 for under $2100 plus shipping. If you think your techs can manage the console, it's one of the best choices, and likely the least expensive.