Distribution: connector strip's outlets

[Sean]

Thanks....

This situation troubles me a bit. Kirk, can you pull up the drawings and figure this out?

I think [user]jpachter[/user] needs to take this really slowly. Others have tried to answer his questions, but there is some potential danger in the volume of 'not quite the answers to the questions he's trying to ask.'

There is likely a very good reason, especially given this is a school with an obvious a lack of oversight, for having different connectors. [user]jpachter[/user], it's very likely that these circuits are not able to be controlled by your light board, or will actually always be lit when the work lights are on in the space. There's more you need to figure out before you start changing plugs or building/buying adapters.

The caveat there is to make sure that they are both 120V and it isn't a 208V twistlock that you are trying to connect to a 120V Stagepin.

Also, [user]jpachter[/user], what do the labels read for those circuits? Are they sequential with the rest of your circuit numbers or are they in their own range (higher or lower)?

EDIT: Talk about a simul-post! [user]Sean[/user] is right on the money with asking "what is plugged into them".

 

[MNicolai]

If you have any questions or problems while you're at the theatre on Tuesday that you want answered while you're staring at your connector strips, you can contact myself or Kirk directly at ETC. I don't know about Kirk, but I will be in the office on Tuesday. You can reach me at 608.831.4116, x5453. Kirk might be more useful, though, as he can probably pull up drawings from your install.

 

[starksk]

Thanks....

This situation troubles me a bit. Kirk, can you pull up the drawings and figure this out?

I think jpachter needs to take this really slowly. Others have tried to answer his questions, but there is some potential danger in the volume of 'not quite the answers to the questions he's trying to ask.'...

Funny you should mention that... I was just drafting a reply to mnicolai's post requesting photos.

jpachter, at the end of the connector strip where the wires come into the terminal box, there was a white label that included the part number of that connector strip. If it is still there, please either take a picture of it, or write down the part number that starts with "TL". Every connector strip is custom built and has a unique part number that is associated with the job it was sold with.

Alternately, you can PM me with the name of your school and where you are located and I can look this information up on Monday.

 

[starksk]

If you have any questions or problems while you're at the theatre on Tuesday that you want answered while you're staring at your connector strips, you can contact myself or Kirk directly at ETC. I don't know about Kirk, but I will be in the office on Tuesday. You can reach me at 608.831.4116, x5453. Kirk might be more useful, though, as he can probably pull up drawings from your install.

I was wondering how long that cat was going to stay in the bag...

Yes, I will be in on Tuesday as well. 800-688-4116 is the ETC Toll-Free line. You can ask for either Mike or I directly, or you can ask to speak with Tech Services and any of our fine support staff (including myself) will be able to answer your questions.

 

[MNicolai]

Yea, yea, yea. Cat's out of the bag. I work at ETC, too. Not permanently, just as a summer intern over in R&D. (Out the door, up the stairs, and around a few corners from where Kirk is in the factory.) I can't really talk about what I do, nor do many of my posts here represent the positions of ETC, but I'm available as a resource to answer simple questions or at least point people in the correct directions.

 

[jpachter]

Sounds good. Thank you all very much. I will post back on this thread after Tuesday -- or around 5:00 pm eastern time.

 

[derekleffew]

jpachter, were the connector strips and lights purchased at the same time? I'm betting not. Or that whoever ordered the fixtures made an egregious error, by not checking the connector strips.

... Any electrician can replace L5-20 connectors on pigtails with female 2P&G connectors, and then you'd never have to worry about weird adapter cables again. On the other other hand, if you have flush-mount receptacles, which given the way you've worded things, you probably do, then you need to purchase a bunch of short Male L5-20->Female 2P&G cables. This is actually easier because then you don't even need to consult an electrician, but it does require funding that your school may or may not have. Any local theatrical supplier will have the cable and the connectors and should be able to make these cables for you in no time. ...

As much as I, and virtually every other professional, prefer the 2P&G connector over the L5-20, I feel changing the connectors on the connector strips, or even building/buying L520-StagePin adapters is a bad idea. The venue in question is a middle school, used by students aged 12-15?, right? With no one other the the limited-experience OP and limited-knowledge teacher masquerading as "lighting designer."

Sean gives good advice about proceeding slowly, and that we need to know more about the installation. But given existing, limited information, I'd recommend, with adult, qualified supervision, removing the male TwistLocs from the adapters and using them to replace the male 2P&Gs on the fixtures, then buying more L5-20Ps as needed to replace the rest. This might be the least expensive route. The variables determining expense are: existing quantities of fixtures, adapters, cables, and outlets.

If the venue were a high school or performing arts center that regularly brought in outside equipment, I would recommend different, but in this instance, for this application, I'd work toward eliminating the stage pin connectors. Not that they are inherent unsafe, but I feel they don't belong on middle and elementary school stages.

Another alternative that I don't think has been mentioned is the two-fer, either Bates, Twist-Loc, or the tufer-adapter (one male Twist-Loc and two female stagepins).

 

[jpachter]

I think they were purchased at the same time, but I can't be sure because the grant we got for the lights was all done through the town. Also, we already have lights that are stage pin that are connected via the pigtail cable to the connector strip. I agree that replacing the stage pin's for twist lock would be a good idea, there are a few issues with this in our school:

-For ANY purchases, it must be run by the town in the school's yearly budget (so I would have to wait until next year when I won't be there anymore)

- The teacher who is the "lighting designer" doesn't like to do anything that requires changing a fixture or something directly attached to it ( the stage pin cable) If we were changing that one row of lights to twist lock, she would want to change the rest of the lights to it as well.

I'm also not completely sure that the port on the connector strip is actually twist lock. If we can't figure it out, we were going to call in somebody from the company to come in and do it for us.

 

[CSCTech]

So you are saying you have stage pin and other different connectors on the same connector strip ?-?

 

[Sean]

I think they were purchased at the same time, but I can't be sure because the grant we got for the lights was all done through the town. Also, we already have lights that are stage pin that are connected via the pigtail cable to the connector strip. I agree that replacing the stage pin's for twist lock would be a good idea, there are a few issues with this in our school:

-For ANY purchases, it must be run by the town in the school's yearly budget (so I would have to wait until next year when I won't be there anymore)

- The teacher who is the "lighting designer" doesn't like to do anything that requires changing a fixture or something directly attached to it ( the stage pin cable) If we were changing that one row of lights to twist lock, she would want to change the rest of the lights to it as well.

I'm also not completely sure that the port on the connector strip is actually twist lock. If we can't figure it out, we were going to call in somebody from the company to come in and do it for us.

Forgive the question, but let me know if I understand your original question correctly:

You have stagepin connectors on all your lights
You have stagepin outlets/pigtails in your raceways
You have just a few of these mysterious connectors on your raceways
You would like to use these additional mysterious connectors to power more lights

Did I get all of that right?

 

[Les]

Forgive the question, but let me know if I understand your original question correctly:

You have stagepin connectors on all your lights
You have stagepin outlets/pigtails in your raceways
You have just a few of these mysterious connectors on your raceways
You would like to use these additional mysterious connectors to power more lights

Did I get all of that right?

This is how I understand it. Also, these "mystery connectors" are flush mount.

My theory is that these are dedicated worklight (or similar) circuits. They may or may not have the ability to be driven by the board, and they may or may not be non-dim.

 

[jpachter]

In response to Sean: All of our lights are stage pin. I have pigtails on the connector strips which are female stage pin on one end (the one that connects to the cable from the light) and then the "mystery" connector is the one on the connector strip itself. All of the connectors on the connector strip are these mystery ones. The stage pin is on the cable that has the "mystery" connector on one end and the stage pin on the other. I'll take a picture on Tuesday to make it easier to describe.

In response to Les: The connectors themselves are flush mount, but there are cable's that are connected to some of them that make it look like a pigtail.

 

[mrb]

In response to Sean: All of our lights are stage pin. I have pigtails on the connector strips which are female stage pin on one end (the one that connects to the cable from the light) and then the "mystery" connector is the one on the connector strip itself. All of the connectors on the connector strip are these mystery ones. The stage pin is on the cable that has the "mystery" connector on one end and the stage pin on the other. I'll take a picture on Tuesday to make it easier to describe.

In response to Les: The connectors themselves are flush mount, but there are cable's that are connected to some of them that make it look like a pigtail.

ok, so it sounds like you have twistlocks (how old is this install?) on the connector strip and twistlock to stage pin adapters plugged into some of them, and your lights are plugged into these. Pretty straightforward. Looks like you just need to figure out which type of twistlock it is and we can help you source the appropriate adapters.

 

[Sean]

ok, so it sounds like you have twistlocks (how old is this install?) on the connector strip and twistlock to stage pin adapters plugged into some of them, and your lights are plugged into these. Pretty straightforward. Looks like you just need to figure out which type of twistlock it is and we can help you source the appropriate adapters.

And the fact that they're flushmounted on the raceway, while all the stagepin circuits are on pigtails leads me to believe they're worklight circuits.

Kirk... we're all waiting for the word on what's really going on there...you know, before someone tries to sell him something so he can plug into a circuit he might not be able to control (or at least dim).

 

[starksk]

And the fact that they're flushmounted on the raceway, while all the stagepin circuits are on pigtails leads me to believe they're worklight circuits.

Kirk... we're all waiting for the word on what's really going on there...you know, before someone tries to sell him something so he can plug into a circuit he might not be able to control (or at least dim).

The OP, jpachter, has PMed me the details of his location. I will pull drawings in the morning and advise as appropriate.

This is a pretty recent installation so there is likely a design intent in play here, but I will know more when I see the drawings in the morning.

Let's hold off the sales pitches until we can confirm what types of connectors, circuits, and programming are applicable to the installation.

 

[MNicolai]

And the fact that they're flushmounted on the raceway, while all the stagepin circuits are on pigtails leads me to believe they're worklight circuits.

Kirk... we're all waiting for the word on what's really going on there...you know, before someone tries to sell him something so he can plug into a circuit he might not be able to control (or at least dim).

There's a lot of confusion, and I'm going to speculate what I think is happening. I think his connector strips were originally specc'ed for twist-lock, but the lights were purchased with 2P&G connectors. What he's been referring to pigtails is an incorrect use of the term. In this case, pigtails would refer to hardwired SO cable that passes through the connector strip via strain relief and terminates on any number of connectors. What I suspect is actually the case is that:

1) All receptacles on the connector strip are twist-lock
2) There are no pigtails, not in the correct application of the term
3) What have been referred to as "pigtails," are actually twist-lock to 2P&G adapters, but as they are never unplugged, they might as well be pigtails.
4) Circuits not in use are not being used simply because there are not enough adapter cables.

(all of this is speculation based on what the OP has posted; starksk will be able to inform us tomorrow what the details of this install are)

 

[derekleffew]

I've got a crisp new Washington that says MNicolai is correct in his assessment of the situation.

OP has never used the term adapter, but has consistently misused the term pigtail.

 

[Sean]

I've got a crisp new Washington that says MNicolai is correct in his assessment of the situation.

OP has never used the term adapter, but has consistently misused the term pigtail.

After re-reading all of the OP's posts, I'm now inclined to agree.

But I can't afford to put any Washingtons towards that...

 

[Soxred93]

This is exactly what I was thinking.

 

[starksk]

Mystery solved.

The OP has 3 connector strips. 2 of which have stage pin pigtails spaced every 4'. The third (3rd Elec.) has 4 circuits on 6" centers, 13ft of space, 3 circuits on 6" centers, then 13ft before the last circuit. It appears that this electric was designed for a strip light installation.

Here is the message sent to jpachter this morning:

In looking at your drawings, there are no twistlocks in the installation. You have a total of 48 dimming circuits and a single relay module which can convert two circuits to a non-dim (on/off) state if you choose.

Therefore, the true answer to your question is that the plastic strain relief you are seeing at the base of the pigtail where it enters the connector strip is not actually a connector, but a method of holding the cable in place so when you pull on it a bit too hard, it doesn't rip out of the connector strip. There are lots of unused knockouts (about every 3 in) in the bottom of the connector strip. Those are there because we use the same metal for each connector strip and only knock out the holes where we need to put pigtails.

You will not be able to add circuits to each connector strip without the unit coming back to us at the factory to be re-wired. This is an expensive proposition.

I would suggest that you use two-fers or three-fers to add additional lighting instruments.