Control/Dimming DMX Dimmer Opinions

[felixm]

I run a small portable PA rig and I'm thinking of upgrading to DMX dimming. I currently only have 8 Par38 can's at 150w each. In most of the bars and clubs I run sound I set a light tree on each side of the stage with 4 lights a side plugged into American DJ T4 chase controllers, it looks cheep but works and is easy to setup.

My goal would be to have 6 to 8 par56-64 on each side of the stage so I could have solid white light and would be able to do some nice color chases.

I have been looking at the typical 4ch Chauvet, Ameriacn DJ/Elation and NSI stuff and I'm turned off by the fact that most of them use 5X20mm fuses for circuit protection which are a pain to find locally so would have to order a bunch just in case. So I have been thinking about getting into a rack mounted dimmer.

I have looked at NSI, Applied and Elation. They all seem to have about the same offering, 12ch in 2 rack spaces. One with 2 Socapex connectors would be nice that way I could have a pre-wired bar on each side and only have one cable to plug in a side.

I would be using single phase supply as most bars and clubs don't even know what 3 phase is. Most have a 50amp 240v outlet at the back of the stage would this be large enough. The place I frequent most has a 100amp panel on the side of the stage with a few extra spaces that I'm sure I could con them to get their electrician in to give me a hookup what would it need to be.

Am I going to far? Please let me know what you think.

 

[BillESC]

Just a thought for you to consider.

By the time you purchase Par64's and lamp them, then add dimming, cabling and feeder, you will have spent in excess of 3K.

With that kind of budget, you could go all LED. A combination of LED Pars and Strip style fixtures will give you expodentially more color combinations, less weight, no heat and pobably operate off of a 20 amp outlet.

As a plus, your maintenance costs will be next to nothing.

 

[soundlight]

Just a thought for you to consider.

By the time you purchase Par64's and lamp them, then add dimming, cabling and feeder, you will have spent in excess of 3K.

With that kind of budget, you could go all LED. A combination of LED Pars and Strip style fixtures will give you expodentially more color combinations, less weight, no heat and pobably operate off of a 20 amp outlet.

As a plus, your maintenance costs will be next to nothing.

I second the motion. LED is definitely the way to go here.

To get the brightness of PAR64s, look for fixtures that have the high-power (1 watt or more) diodes, and you really want RGBAW mixing rathern than just RGB mixing. It's nice to be able to actually get colors that look good on people's faces rather than having some disgusting combination of red, green and blue LEDs that tries to be white but really isn't.

 

[JD]

I have a number of the Elation 12 pack rack mounts. They are nice and work trouble free. They use magnetic circuit breakers so there are no fuses to deal with. That being said, in your application I think it might be overkill. For one thing they are heavy! I like the LED solution above, but if you want to stick with pars, and intend to do this in stages and for cheep, I would use the 4-packs and buy a supply of fuses. If you are running them with 300 watt PAR 56's (one per channel) and using the packs rated at 10 amps per, (2400 w total) then you will not be using too many (if any ever) fuses. One other important thing: Rack mount dimmers are not friendly to use if you intend to plug them into a wall outlet. Because the neutral conductor is on a common buss inside the rack, you are limited to all 12 channels being on one 20 amp outlet. DO NOT try to split them up as you will have a serious risk of fire. (to say nothing of the laundry list of code violations.) The better option is the four-packs, which each can be plugged into a separate outlet.

Again, if budget permits, the LED system would be the best solution as it is very light weight and does not draw much power.

 

[soundlight]

Again, if budget permits, the LED system would be the best solution as it is very light weight and does not draw much power.

Given the price of purchasing the dimmers, rack, feeder, suckerpex, and other such items, I'm fairly certain that the LED option would actually be cheaper.

 

[felixm]

Thanks to all that replied.

JD have you ever used the 6ch 2 circuit packs? They don't use fuses, they circuit breakers.

To everyone else what LED pars have you used and what do you like? I work for a MI retailer that deals American DJ, Elation and Chauvet. I see a lot of their products coming back broken. That is probably the biggest reason to go with good old pars.

Thanks again

 

[JD]

JD have you ever used the 6ch 2 circuit packs? They don't use fuses, they circuit breakers.

Yes. They would be an answer, but are much higher in price than the 4 packs, which can be had for about $150 (Much less if you want to go with something like the Optima.) It all depends on if you want to "start fresh" or migrate to a new system, and of course, budget. If you have the budget, start over then go with a LED system. If you have a limited budget, pick up a couple of 4 packs and a board. (About $600 so far.) Then move from the par38s to the par56s at whatever rate you want.

Soco's are good for what they were designed, but with only 8 circuits involved, and on the club scene, I would just stick with Edisons. (regular plugs)

The exception to this whole strategy would be if you intend to build this system up to something much larger in the future.

 

[felixm]

I have a cheep board already an Elation DMX Operator and have been using Chauvet's usb to DMX box and software. I can get most stuff at a great prices, 12ch rack dimmer for $700. But with LED's being so new, I can't get as good of a deal on them.

Long term I would love to be doing med to large sized venues with line arrays, 400a power distros and all the things that go a long with it. So long term I think a rack of dimmers would be good. But for now I might stick with smaller packs and maybe some LEDs. After all I have only been in business for 3 months.

 

[NickJones]

A 12ch Dimmer rack would need 3phase power to operate, somthing you probably don't have acess to in Bars & Clubs, that's why we have been sugesting the single phase dimmers so they can run on standard household power. A rack of dimmers would be also useless as you need multiple 3phases, so they are cheaper, but will be useless in most situations.

Nick

 

[fredthe]

Part of your original question was power.... certanly switching to LEDs will reduce power concerns, but if you are really set on the rack....

You say most venues have 240V/50A connections. The big question is what type of receptical does it have? Is it just hot leads + ground, or does it have a neutral connection? If the neutral is available, and if the dimmers can be wired for two-phase operation, you should be good to go. Running 16x 150W PARs shouldn't be a problem.

-Fred

 

[felixm]

The one Bar that has the 50a receptacle it 3 pole w/ground, hope I said that right. In other words it has 2 hots, a neutral and a ground.

 

[mstaylor]

What you have is single phase power with nuettral and ground. This is two hots, a nuetral and a ground. Once you have your dimmer, you just have to get the proper plug.
You said the one club has this plug, any idea what the others you play in has? It is possible you may get into having to do power taps in the club panels. It is possible to make a box that has your plug it it and two regular edisons plugs coming out. These you can plug into wall sockets but you have to make sure the two are seperate circuits, preferably on opposite phases.

 

[BillESC]

For your stage washes, the 420B is ideal. Featuring 60 1w diodes with 12 each of Red, Green, Blue, Amber and White with a 45 degree beam spread. Draws 60w.

For Par can work, available with 15, 25 and 30 degree beam options, the Parco3-36Tri will get the job done. It features 36 - 3w tricolor diodes and draws 108w.

 

[Chris15]

A 12ch Dimmer rack would need 3phase power to operate, somthing you probably don't have acess to in Bars & Clubs, that's why we have been sugesting the single phase dimmers so they can run on standard household power. A rack of dimmers would be also useless as you need multiple 3phases, so they are cheaper, but will be useless in most situations.

Nick

Nick, remember they are talking about US power...

And in fact the Jands etc 12ch racks can be wired for single phase operation, there are 6 input terminals (at least in the Jands ones), 3 actives and 3 neutrals. For normal 3 phase operation, the neutrals are joined with a bus bar.

And many a pub and club that are set up for bands DO have three phase, just some is less useful than others (20 amps outlets and other such idiocy...)

 

[felixm]

Well for the short term I picked up a couple of Elation DPDMX20L packs. There will at lease run the cans I have now and give me some time to get some LED's