Control/Dimming ETC Express 48/96 effect cue problem

[Rornce]

Hi everyone,
I was recently programing a cue for my high schools production of Annie on our ETC express 48/96, and I came across a bit of an error... I think. It is a cue for the house lights before the start of the show, they start at full and then one by one go to 60 from the back of the house towards the stage. Our house lights dimmer zones are set up in rows running from left to right in the auditorium, eleven in total. My first thought was to make an 11 step effect cue, (step 1: chan 97-107 w/ 97@60, step 2: chan 97-107 w/ 97 and 98@60, etc.) but I remembered that the board could give the effects attributes, so I brushed up on that chapter in the manual and created 11 steps, each with one different channel of the house lights. Time of .3 with no fades or dwell, 60 low and full high. I made the cue a positive reverse build effect (the reverse because I wanted the steps to go the opposite direction than I initially programmed them)and when I played it back, the channels instantly all went to 36 and then one by one went up to 60. I messed around with random setting in the attributes, positive vs. negative etc. and found that it worked fine without the reverse. I thought there would be something different about the last step that would miss start the effect but it was identical to the other steps except for it's channel. The manual says you can create any combination of alternate, reverse, bounce, and build effects, but this doesn't seem to work for me. Is it something I'm doing wrong, or is it the board?

I know there many other ways of getting the effect that I want, but it would be a lot easier to have this cue and just change the attributes when I want to reuse in a different way which I plan on doing.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, and if anyone needs anymore information I'll post it as soon as I can.

 

[jglodeklights]

Doesn't sound like the board. Start fresh. Two Options:

1. Effect cue: You will need 11 steps, one for each zone, as you already surmised. You will want it to be a standard positive effect as when you first start things off. Each step should have step time of whatever you want the time between each out to be, whatever you want the fade time of each out to be, and dwell of hold (so it doesn't release the level of out), the fade out of the step effect should be zero just for habit's sake, the levels should both be set to out(0).

2. Follow cues. Write a series of cues that takes each desired channel to zero. Syntax is [Channel x] [@] [00] [Record][n][Enter][Time][Z][Enter][Follow]<--(accessed through softkeys). [Y] [Enter].

 

[lwinters630]

My first thought is to use a part cue which is easier for what you want to do. You want to start with say cue 10 (pre show) house full. Then the next thing is to fade house (back to front) to 60%. Lets call this cue 20 ( house to 60)

Now go to cue 20, house is all at 60. select the channel 107 record part 1 time .3 enter. next select channel 106 record part 2 time .3 wait .3 continue to next part but increase the wait .3 each time.

What will happen when you start in cue 10 and hit go (for cue 20) is each row will begin to fade in .3 and the next row will continue with out having to do anything and it will be smooth as if you reached up and slid down each fader one after another.

That said there is one limitation- Part cues can only have 8 parts (which we can solve). Think of it as a pie with 8 pieces, you can take each piece in any order ( 1, 5, 6, 2, etc) and make any number of channels go up or down but not both. the wait tells it when you want to start the fade for that part. If you don't wait different times you end up with them all going at same time.

I think of it as two looks, the one you start with (cue 10) and the look when everything is done doing what you want (cue 20). Say you had a soloist DC and you wanted to focus on her with a blue cyc and soft lights on some scenery cue 45. When she ends her song you want her to be silhouetted with a back light, the whole scene fades and the cyc goes dim blue Just before her back light fades. This can be done in one cue with 4 parts. Cue 45 is the first look, and the next cue 50 is full black. but in cue 50 part 1 takes out the front light, part 6 fades scenery, part 7 dims the the cyc, and the back light is part 8 which you now fade out. choose what ever fade/ waits you want. When selecting parts, the first channels go in to what ever part you pick, the rest default to part 8 until you select another part. so a 2 part cue could have part 3 and part 8. remember parts just like the pie do not have to be in a particular order it is the wait that really sets the timing. Once you have done it a few times it is faster, uses less cues and go pushes.

To solve the 11 channels for your house is actual easy, make a second cue 21 and with the other three channels that you did not select in parts 1-8. make cue 21 follow in (8x.3) 2.4 sec. Use part 1, part 2 and the final part 8 with wait times etc.

Now that hopefully you understood the timing idea, that is why your steps are not working. When step 1 starts the next step starts in .3 it does not go slow and does not wait. It only appears to be slow because you have overlapping channels. (complex) Steps usually repeat and is only a temporary override of a channel, so I don't think this will meet your goal.


On the non related side, if you want to have some fun try subroutines. Say you are doing a rock concert. program three cues in any somewhat related look you want. IE a red cyc and green cyc and a blue cyc. Now go blind and start a new cue # choose type 4 subroutine, put in the three cues you made and select choose repeat till go. record enter go stage (live) and run your cue. That was fun and easy wasn't it!

 

[Rornce]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses, but I think I need to be a little clearer.
I know how to do all that, my problem is that I want to know why these effect attributes aren't working so I know if this is or is not a limitation for future programing.

Thanks agin

 

[starksk]

Hi everyone,
I was recently programing a cue for my high schools production of Annie on our ETC express 48/96, and I came across a bit of an error... I think. It is a cue for the house lights before the start of the show, they start at full and then one by one go to 60 from the back of the house towards the stage. Our house lights dimmer zones are set up in rows running from left to right in the auditorium, eleven in total. My first thought was to make an 11 step effect cue, (step 1: chan 97-107 w/ 97@60, step 2: chan 97-107 w/ 97 and 98@60, etc.) but I remembered that the board could give the effects attributes, so I brushed up on that chapter in the manual and created 11 steps, each with one different channel of the house lights. Time of .3 with no fades or dwell, 60 low and full high. I made the cue a positive reverse build effect (the reverse because I wanted the steps to go the opposite direction than I initially programmed them)and when I played it back, the channels instantly all went to 36 and then one by one went up to 60. I messed around with random setting in the attributes, positive vs. negative etc. and found that it worked fine without the reverse. I thought there would be something different about the last step that would miss start the effect but it was identical to the other steps except for it's channel. The manual says you can create any combination of alternate, reverse, bounce, and build effects, but this doesn't seem to work for me. Is it something I'm doing wrong, or is it the board?

Hi Rornce,

Maybe.
Let's look at what the effect is doing and what you want it to do just to make sure I am understanding you correctly.

You would like an effect that does this:

style="width: 500px" class="cms_table_grid" align="left"
|-
| Channel #
| Cue "1"
| Effect Start
|Step 1
|Step 2
|Step 3
|Step 4
|Step 5
|Step 6
|Step 7
|Step 8
|Step 9
|Step 10
|Step 11
|-
|107
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|106
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|105
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|104
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|103
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|102
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|101
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|100
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|99
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|-
|98
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|-
|97
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60

But what you got was this:

style="width: 500px" class="cms_table_grid" align="left"
|-
| Channel #
| Cue "1"
| Effect Start
|Step 1
|Step 2
|Step 3
|Step 4
|Step 5
|Step 6
|Step 7
|Step 8
|Step 9
|Step 10
|Step 11
|-
|107
|FL
|36
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|106
|FL
|36
|36
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|105
|FL
|36
|36
|36
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|104
|FL
|36
|36
|36
|36
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|103
|FL
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|102
|FL
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|101
|FL
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|100
|FL
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|99
|FL
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|60
|60
|60
|-
|98
|FL
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|60
|60
|-
|97
|FL
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|36
|60

Until you removed the reverse, which gave you this:

style="width: 500px" class="cms_table_grid" align="left"
|-
| Channel #
| Cue "1"
| Effect Start
|Step 1
|Step 2
|Step 3
|Step 4
|Step 5
|Step 6
|Step 7
|Step 8
|Step 9
|Step 10
|Step 11
|-
|97
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|98
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|99
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|100
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|101
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|102
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|103
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|104
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|60
|-
|105
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|60
|-
|106
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60
|60
|-
|107
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|FL
|60

?


Is that correct?

Are there any cues that are executed between the cue with the houselights at full and the cue that this effect is running in? If so, do those cues complete before the effect cue is started or does the effect cue follow before the previous cue completes?

 

[Rornce]

YES!
That is exactly right.
Cue 1 Is the house lights at full, cue two is the effect cue wit a follow of 3.3 (.3seconds per each of the 11 steps), and cue 3 is the house lights at 60. Both cue 1 and 3 have in and outs of 0.

Thanks

 

[starksk]

I was able to achieve the effect that you were looking for by using a negative, reverse, build set of attributes with steps 1-11 affecting 97-107 in order using your timing and levels.

The positive attribute tells the step to stay at its low value and go to its high value when active. The negative attribute tells it to go to the low value when active and otherwise stay at its high value.

The build attribute allows the steps to accumulate instead of just toggle up/down (which you had already specified).

The reverse attribute was because I (like you) entered the channels in numeric order per step instead of entering them in reverse order per step. Reverse just tells the console which order to run the steps (as you would be able to see when you look at the playback counting steps up or down)

 

[Rornce]

I was able to achieve the effect that you were looking for by using a negative, reverse, build set of attributes with steps 1-11 affecting 97-107 in order using your timing and levels.

The positive attribute tells the step to stay at its low value and go to its high value when active. The negative attribute tells it to go to the low value when active and otherwise stay at its high value.

The build attribute allows the steps to accumulate instead of just toggle up/down (which you had already specified).

The reverse attribute was because I (like you) entered the channels in numeric order per step instead of entering them in reverse order per step. Reverse just tells the console which order to run the steps (as you would be able to see when you look at the playback counting steps up or down)

Okay, like I said in my original post, I tried changing between positive and negative and got the same effect both ways, so would this be a problem with the board, and if so is there an easy way to fix it that you know of?

thanks again

 

[starksk]

Interesting...

I would try to delete and recreate the cue to see if it was something strange accidentally entered. If that doesn't clear it, you could save your show and deep clear the console followed by reloading your show from disk.

Alternately, you could send me your show file at kirk dot starks at etcconnect dot com and I could see if it behaves the same way here. If so, we would know it is something in programming. If not, we would know its console related.

 

[Rornce]

Cool, I did try redoing the cue and at some point when trying to figure out the problem and that didn't work, so I'll try the deep clear tomorrow and see how it turns out.
Our last show just closed this past Friday so it's a good thing I found this now while I have a good month to not worry about accidentally erasing every thing : )

Thanks so much

 

[lwinters630]

So I have been pondering this thread.

If the goal was to dim the house for the start of the show, bringing them down starting from the back of house (row by row) to the stage, starting at full and ending at 60, then what is the difference between using a step effect or a part cue or follow cues? Is it that you want this as a house chase effect and not a one time dim?

 

[Rornce]

The point of this thread was not discover how to create the look that I wanted, I could name at least ten different ways to do that. My hope was that someone would be able to help me troubleshoot why the board was not functioning the way I believe it is supposed to, if it was something I was doing or if it was a problem with the software/hardware