But fire is so much cooler than pressing a keyboard button.
Sorry I'm late, I've been out of town for a while. Here's another great story from the Seattle Area. A guy was storing a shipping container filled with the fireworks for two small community 4th of July shows in his junk yard. $80,000 worth of fireworks all, prepped and ready to go. Around 1am on July 1st the owner of the junk yard decides to go test out his new rifle... Guess what happened.
You can read the rest here.
North Reading,
I like how they say a glitch OR computer "virus" caused it. If it was a virus the company should be in some hefty trouble for not making sure their environment was a clean one, especially something that runs the show. Now I think this was more so of a matter someone who doesn't know what's up was talking out of their rear end.
Yeah, I'm seeing a lawsuit in the future. Obviously the proper safety measures were not in place.
Sorry I haven't been able to check this earlier. To address a few points:
Garden State has just recently started to narrow down the problem. To my knowledge, virus has been ruled out at this point and was unlikely to begin with. Most companies do a pretty good job at isolating their computers to be used exclusively for shows. August Santore is far from "someone who doesn't know what's up." He probably misspoke, but I can't imagine the situation he was in. I'm not going to criticize how they handled it with the media because they were so shaken up.
Probably not. What safety measures are you speaking about specifically? Please quote NFPA 1123 and tell me what they did wrong. For something of this caliber to happen (on a barge shoot no less), they were doing something right if nobody got hurt. At anytime, something can go wrong (and they do) which is why safety measures are in place.
Most systems do have an E-stop or deadman switch. The show fired so quickly that there was no stopping it by the time the operators knew what had happened. Although the "show" lasted 15 seconds, the actual cues probably all fired in 5 seconds or less. The system they were allegedly using does have a backup manual control. But again, if it all fires, there are no more fireworks to shoot manually.
Good theory. The show was already loaded so with each shell in a tube, it wouldn't have been a mass "chain reaction." Also, multiple barges all reacted the same way, which leads to the belief that the computer was in control with that. If shells weren't loaded and sitting on top of mortar tubes, or in cases that were ignited, you would see more of a "chain reaction" which would be devastating.
I've heard Garden State (fireworks company), along with the firing system manufacturer, are supposed to come out with a joint press release to explain what happened. A few points:
This is very rare, but obviously can happen. Sometimes shows don't go as planned. I think it was a programming error since all barges acted the same. It could have been in the design software or done manually. It's still up in the air.
Garden State is a well-respected company in the industry. They do a lot of shows. Again, sometimes things happen.
How many of you have ever had a lighting console freeze up? Scary stuff! Computers can be helpful, but it always adds another layer of complexity for more things to go wrong. Of course, the media also latches onto this, despite the thousands of shows that went off just fine that week.
I can't since I don't have the facts of their set-up. Plus, just because no one was hurt does not mean that they were doing it right. We can look at many posts on this forum to see how people have escaped injury when something went wrong, and found that it was preventable. Even respected and well known companies can have a catastrophe and be sued. This is America after all, we love lawsuits. However, without an independent third party doing an investigation (since there were no injuries), we'll see if it's just settled out of court.
So, since you have the experience in fireworks shows and I do not, why wouldn't the deadman essentially be in place until the show is allowed to go live? This is how we do it in theater when we have a computer controlled pyro effect. That switch should have been thrown the moment the first shell discharged. Again, once those fireworks are connected to a firing mechanism, they should be watched at all times for safety. Even five seconds is too long.
Sure, the media latched onto it. Surprisingly, they did not bring up a similar situation in Scotland a few years back. Audiences are often unforgiving. Ask any sound guy. You do a perfect show and the audience feels, well he did his job. Let one squeak out and they think you're an amateur.
As for lighting consoles freezing up? If you are on a high profile show, you have a live tracking back-up system, maybe more. Believe me, you don't want to have to answer to the higher-ups when the reason they had to refund the house was because you didn't have your system properly managed.
I love that they say that they'll do a make up show. When, for Mexican Independence Day? Sometimes in show business you get one shot to do it right. If you don't, you get judged by that. It's a touchy business. One day you are well respected, the next, not so much.
Again, I don't know much about their set up. Those that do know, aren't talking much. Another theory is that the programming fired all at 0:00:000. In this scenario, maybe the deadman was held down as it should have been but everything fired at once. With so many fireworks, it very well could take 10-15 seconds for the sky to clear even if all was fired at once.
That would be my guess. Do you know what controller they use?
For example, I know show director is very glitchy and it is quite easy to bump all the cues to 00:00:00:00, I have never had any problem(of this kind) with the Field Controller itself though.
If they used any chains, I am suppressed of how short it was even if all the cues fired simultaneously.
The general consensus is that it was a FireOne system. Specific hardware is still unknown. Are you thinking about timed chains (with delay fuse)? If they were standard quickmatch chains, I think the timing would have been about right. Some people also double match their chains to get more of an "instant feel." Another detail that could have made a difference and nobody outside of this really knows.
I won’t concede that I made bold statements. My opinions may be strong, but that does not make them wrong. This company may have taken all industry standard precautions for safety and they may not. I don’t know; neither will anyone if there is not an independent investigation. I’m not speculating on what they did or did not do, just that there is an obvious need for alternate safety measures that were not used since an uncontrolled set of fireworks were discharged with no means of stopping them. We as a community rely on your experience to help us understand what went wrong and what went right in a general sense. We don't need a how-to since nobody should do this without proper training.My point was, you made a bold statement by saying "Obviously the proper safety measures were not in place." And as you pointed out, you don't have the facts of their set up. I don't either, so I won't accuse someone/a company of something when I don't have the facts. You're statement very well could be true. You make a lot of bold statements for someone who doesn't have experience with professional large-scale displays.
In your opinion, is the standard practice to verify your show prior to starting the firing sequence by computer? This is standard practice for large scale shows which I have worked on, even without pyro effects (i.e. proofreading for the literary world). Call it superstition or safe practice, as I said, we want to ensure that it works right the first time.Again, I don't know much about their set up. Those that do know, aren't talking much. Another theory is that the programming fired all at 0:00:000. In this scenario, maybe the deadman was held down as it should have been but everything fired at once. With so many fireworks, it very well could take 10-15 seconds for the sky to clear even if all was fired at once.
My understanding is that the show fired once loaded and ready to go (even if during the testing and pre-roll). It wasn't like things randomly went off during set up. Many of the practices you're talking about that you've seen in theater are accurate, but are definitely common practice. They were on barges, so it's not like someone left the show and walked away.
I am extremely pleased that they are a professional company who managed safety well enough that even though something dramatically was out of their control that no one was injured and no property was damaged.There are so many things that COULD have happened, regardless of safety measures in place. I can't, nor can most, speculate. We also use the same firing system so I'm very familiar with it. The system used is one of the most widely used in the world. Again, just like any computer, initially it's so hard to say what happened. We'll have to wait for the company to make a report. I'll try to update the thread if I find out additional information straight from the source.
My point was things can happen and computers fail. That's about all that can be said. Their company still does great shows. I shouldn't have compared lighting and pyro. There is no true comparison, but I'll try again. If all of your light bulbs burn out at once, what's your backup plan then? Backup/redundant systems wouldn't have made a difference.
For the record, I have nothing against them. I have nothing against the fireworks industry, my kids love them. You may have more empathy because you are in the industry and can feel what it must be like to have that happen. The same can be said for me feeling for all those who have had outdoor stage collapses in the past few years. I stopped doing outdoor shows back in the 90’s because I hated dealing with unpredictable weather.Not sure why you have so much against them. I own a competing company and still have more empathy. So they offered to do a makeup show. Why would you put them down for that? They're trying to make it right. For your information, fireworks are used year-round. I shot 22 this last week, and do 2-3 a week the rest of the year.
I agree with most of what you've said. It's show business and you do have one time to get it right. Sometimes things happen. Some are foreseeable, some are not. That's life. I'm sure Garden State will be just fine. They have probably shot a dozen or more shows since then with no issues whatsoever.
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