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giotto or mac?

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by dj_illusions, May 1, 2005.

  1. dj_illusions

    dj_illusions Active Member

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    Hey All..

    Just of many of you thought I may have disappeared, i am still around!!! Just havnt had much time to post of late, but have still read alot of the posts.

    Doing a show at the moment and will be using a number of moving yoke and led fixtures.

    Just wondering what everyones views are: the sgm giotto 400 cmy, high end sys x-spot or mac 250's? There will be eight in total, I have used both the 250 and the giotto but am really have a hard time trying to decide which fixture to use!!!

    Any ideas?

    Cheers,

    Jeremy
     
  2. len

    len Well-Known Member

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    I have only heard the name Giotto, don't know anything about them, never used them.

    Your comparison of an X-spot to a M250 series is ridiculous. the X-spot is almost three times the price of the newer Entour/Krypton. You should be comparing an X-spot to a Mac2000 series fixture. That debate crops up on Light Network every so often, with no clear winner. They both have an outstanding feature set (for that kind of money they should). Most people say the x-spot is a little easier to repair, more modular. But I don't think either has a reliability problem. In reading the tour rigs in Pro Production and PLSN, the Mac 2K series will get spec'ed more often. That doesn't mean they are a better fixture.
     
  3. dj_illusions

    dj_illusions Active Member

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    I was not comparing, I simply asking for peoples suggestions.

    They are the fixtures that have been offered by the company. I am well aware that comparing such fixtures is not ideal, i am simply asking for an opinion from techs that have used all three or 1 or 2 to offer their suggestions.

    I have not used a Mac250, however I have used other macs. I have used Giottos and I have not used an x-spot but other fixtures from high end.

    I simply want to know what people liked/disliked about each fixture and views on them, i am not out to compare!!!!
     
  4. herr_highbrau

    herr_highbrau Member

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    Well, I've never used the Giotto or the X-Spot, but I use the Mac alot on my gigs, and come to love them as sons. I've generally had no problems with them, and will happilly reccomend them to most people.

    Sorry if this just seems like a glorification of Martin, but I do think that the Mac 250 is a very good fixture, and has performed better than many other in it's class that I've used. :)
     
  5. dj_illusions

    dj_illusions Active Member

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    Thanks for that, I have used Macs alot too and love them but at the moment the push is: I am able to hire 8 Giotto's for the same price as 4 Mac's....
     
  6. jordan

    jordan Member

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    I have always been a fan of all Martin products. They are known to be very reliable, and I have never had a disappointing experience with a Mac. The High End's on the other hand aren't as reliable, but the price is definitely lower. Despite your ability to get twice as many High End's, I would have to go with the Martin's because it's not always how many you have, its what you do with them.
     
  7. smeggie

    smeggie Member

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    have used both the sgm giotto wash 400's and mac ranges.

    for the wash 400's [the model i used]
    i suspect they are are capable of a larger throw than the mac 250's. but i havent seen their beams side by side.
    i used the giotto w 400's for a month of 18 hr days and had no trouble with them [but i suspect they were very new- high profile bosses and all that]
    haven't used the x-spots yet.

    from what little i know, it depends on what model you go for - if you want to cover a large area, the wash 400's are luvverly, but their cmy mixing is a little jerky at the extremely early end of their range - the dichronic glass triangle is visible for a short time.
    but on the positive side, it has some handy filters on a wheel, and basic shuttering too.
    the movements are about as noisy as each other, and speed is similar too.
    if its for a rock/siimilar show where the supreme detail is not seen, go for it. for theatre/opera where detail is the killer, i'd suggest you have a demo of each unit next to each other.

    i had no trouble with the build quality of the giotto kit and the same when i use mac 250s [apart from one that was playing silly b*ggers with its gobo wheel, but they do after a while of harsh use]
     
  8. tss_rocks

    tss_rocks Member

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    I have seen the SGM Giotto Spot 400s being used along side some High End StudioSpot 575s and the difference between the two was shocking. The Giottos were much brighter and more vivid than the Studio Spots. We used them for a skating show, and we ended up primarily using the Giottos - but we used the Studio Spots more or less just for wash.

    I have used the Giottos for 5 or 6 shows now and haven't been disappointed with their performance. However, I haven't seen them side by side to a MAC250, so I can't really compare to them.

    Hope it helps.
     
  9. jonhirsh

    jonhirsh Active Member

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    hey i have only had a chance to play with mac 250 and kryptons and pall 1200 studio spots 575 never a giotto but the only negitive thing i can say about the mac 250 line is that the stock gobo's suck out right suck and to go and replace them all with coustomes is a pain and is expensive i think i will stick to my studio spots and palls untill they do an update on there gobos and mabey alittle work on there colours as well


    JH
     
  10. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    In the initial post you are comparing at least by way of lamps being used in the fixtures, apples to oranges to banannas. While optics and features might be within consideration, arc gap for image quality, color temperature and outputput will be nothing similar to base a comparison off of. Would a Leko copare with a clip light in output and beam? For all it should depend upon your use as certainly in this discussion if a X-Spot is comperable to a Mac 2K as a debate, how than can it be viewed in the same respect as a MAC 250?

    On the fixtures using the MSD250/2 lamp type alone as posted to Pro Sound/Lighting earlier tonight I found this list of fixtures using that lamp very extensive and comperable to each other given the same lamp at least fair in choice. Don't have a list of Morphious lights but I know they feature them also as not listed. Not all are moving lights but most of them would be equal comparisions to the Martin, High End, SGM, Robe, American DJ and others. Want to compare a MSR 700SA based X-Spot lamp based fixture (very tempermental lamp and not very cost effective in lamp life) that's anoter list. Much less the differences between 400w hot restrike lamps and later mentioned 1200w arc source lamps. Lots of options out there, even buying some of late that are using for some new to the market ultra-high end fixtures that at times use the same lamp as some local high schools use in their club spot type follow spots. Wattage and type of lamp used will play a role even if features of light are similar between models using opposing lamps. Narrow down the output and type of fixture you wish to use and it's a little easier to specify other products using the lamp, or in my case while not using the fixtures, note details about the lamp used in it as also helpful.

    Abstract VR-12, AC Lighting Tour Spot 250, American DJ Ultra Scan 250, Clay Paky CP Color 250, COEF Color Disco MSD 250, COEF Color Fresnel 250, COEF MP 250 Optic & Fresnel, COEF Performance 250 Disco & Show, Coemar Color Cyc 250, Coemar i-Cyc & Spot 250, Coemar Panorama Cyc 250C, Coemar Pro Spot & Wash, Coemar Pro Spot/Wash 250LX, DTS Rainbow 250, DTS XR 250 Spot & Wash, Elation Accu Spot 250, Elation Active Wave, Elation Active Scan, Elation Color Spot & Wash 250, Elation Power Spot & Wash 250, Elation Waterfall 250, ETC Indeon AR250, FAL Acrobat, FAL Color Dance 250, FAL 500, 1000 & 2000, FAL Hurricane, FAL Insense 250, FAL Modulo, FAL Promo 3 & 4, FAL Three-Sixty and Three-Sixty 2, Five Star Systems Helix 250, Futurelight AS-200, Futurelight Color Changer cc-200 & 400, Futurelight Extelight 250CMY, Futurelight MH-640/660/670/675/&680, Futurelight PHW-250, Futurelight PS/D-200, Futurelight Scan sc-250/375/570, Geni MOS300, Geni OBY-300, Geni Shiva 250R & 250R/TM, Genius Color Mix, Genius MOtor Show 250E, GLP Y-Pac 250/250 Color, Griven Acrobat PE, Griven Popscan, Griven Stelvio CYM MSD 250, HES Color Pro/Color Pro FX, HES EC-2, HES Studio 250, HES Studio Color/Spot 250, HES Technobeam, HES Technopro & Technoray, Hubbell Helux Profile 250, Hui Hong Killer Whale, Hui Hong Wirlwind I, JB Lighting Varycolor 6/200 MSD, JB Lighting Varyscan Special Plus New, Lampo Wichhart PRO-lum 250, LDR Canto 250MSD, LDR Soffio 250, LDR Suono d10/28 & d20/40 Profile Spot, LDR Suonoi F250 MSD Fresnel, MAD lighting Axis, MAD lighting ITM 250, Martin CX-10, Martin Imagescan, Martin Mac 250 (Entour/Krypton/Wash), Martin Mac 300, Martin MX-10 Extreme, Martin Wizard, Milanolite USA RX-12, Opti Kinetics GoBo Pro, PR Lighting Moon/Tornado/Nova/Planet Scan, PR Lighting Pilot 250, PSL Omniscan MSD 250, Robe Beam 250, Robe Color Mix 250, Robe DJ Scan 250, Robe Ecolor, Robe MS Zoom 250XT, Robe Scan 250, Robe Spot 250XT, Robe Wash 250XT, Sachtler Active Color, Sachtler Miniscan, Sachtler Moving FX 2002, Sachtler Moving Spot/Wash 250, Sachtler Wall Color 250, SGM/Elettronica Cyberscan, SGM/Elettronica Giotto Wash/Spot 250, Steinigeke Futurelight MH 640/660/Exterlight/680, Studio Due Mini City 250, Studio Due Shark 250, TecLumen Arena 250, TecLumen Pumto Color 250, Terbly Flash 2501/02, Terbly Mini 2503, Terbly TB 2000/3000 Scanner, Terbly TB 5000/600, Ultralite Blackjack 200RG, Ultralite Magic Mirror, Ultralite Pro Head/Wash, Ultralite PR-Master 3, Universal Fog Space Gun Robo, and VariLight Veryscan 3 Special Plus all use this lamp. While some are not moving light persay, you can see it is a very popular and well used lamp.
     
  11. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    MSR 700SA lamp using fixtures:
    COEF MP 700 Wash & Zoom, Coemar CF-7 HE & Wash, Geni MOS 700, Griven Acrobat PE 700, High End Systems Studio Beam 700, HES Studio Beam PC, HES X-Spot, HES X-Spot Extreme, VariLight VL-2K, VariLight VL-6c, VariLight VL-7 (7B), VL 2201 & VL 2202.

    The SGM/Eletronica series of Giotto has five basic type of fixture ranging from 250w to 1,200w.

    Given the Giotto Profile/Spot/Wash 400 over the more balanced giotto Spot/Wash 250 that would be more fair, here are fixtures using the same MSR 400HR type of lamp. - Not a very popular lamp and one that while dimmable as a good feature, is not one that is cheap to buy comparitively due to volume of fixtures using it.
    This as opposed to the MSD 250 line of lamp from Philips proper and other companies that allows you to buy cheaper brands at times or dial in the color temperature you desire by way of lamp from about 6K to 8.5K.

    ARRI Lux 400 Pocket Par, SGM Giotto Profile/Spot/Wash 400, & Studio Due ?CS-4. Though this lamp has long been in my inventory thus it will have been used in long discontinued types of fixtures. Given a very limited market for end users of the lamp, while it probably won't become discontinued in the near future, expect that it also is a dead end lamp in not having future upgrades and improvements to it.

    Based upon this lamp to fixture note I would cross out any fixture using this lamp for consideration. On the other hand, the 250w version of the fixture should be much more suitable given the same features for your consideration.
     
  12. soundman

    soundman Well-Known Member

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    What looks are you trying to get with the lights, Are they for projection, speacils, or effects?
     
  13. Radman

    Radman Well-Known Member

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    I've always wondered, is the x.Spot just a shorter way of saying x.Spot Xtreme, or a seperate fixture? If seperate, what are the differences?

    I'd say there is a bit more that goes into chosing a fixture than what lamp it uses or how many cool features it has. The light has to fit in with the rest of the inventory. What will be used to control it? Which one will be easier to program? I believe x.Spots have a LOT of channels, will you have enough DMX to handle an x.Spot? Do you want to have CMY over just a few colors? Answering these questions may help narrow it down to 1 or 2.
     

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