Automated Fixtures Martin MAC 700 Lamp Behavior

[DP1673]

Hey,
So my current situation is that I have 5 Martin Mac 700 Profiles and one of them has a strange lamp issue. After a lamp strike at 700watts, the fixture runs like normal for about 15-20min. After that, the lamp suddenly douses and after another 5min the fixtures produces a lamp error and completely locks up. Once this happens, I would have to completely power cycle the fixture in order to get it working. I have a found a temporary fix, which is to set it to 400watt mode and it operates just fine, but I would like to know if this is easily fixable? I have replaced the lamp 3 times just make sure it wasn't a lamp issue. I assume it's a sensor but I don't think it's a sensor I am familiar with. Any thoughts on what could cause the lamp to douse at 700watts but not 400watts?

 

[aeh20s]

Can't say for certain by my first guess would be heat. What is the specific error the fixture is throwing?

 

[macsound]

Weird that it locks up, but I have a VL2000 that douses after 15 minutes and the lamp fan isn't working, so only 1/2 as much air moving through the head...

 

[DP1673]

Can't say for certain by my first guess would be heat. What is the specific error the fixture is throwing?

Last error message it threw was an LERR. I don't believe it's heat related since the fixture locks up entirely. It more seems like the sensor for the lamp exploding is tripping and is causing a complete lock on it (which the lamp is obviously not exploding). I have cleaned and checked the fans just to make sure and I still receive the same results

 

[aeh20s]

The behavior you're describing is inconsistent with the error message that the unit is throwing according to the manual. My second guess would be something wrong with the power supply, I'd call Martin support.

 

[ship]

As a lamp inspector and buyer with 24 years experience for all serial numbered moving light lamps which they are.... And from inspecting the rejected lamps, for bad lamp or troubleshooting other fixture problems, the above does not "do the simple first".

My first question is what does the screw and base attachment to the lamp socket on the bad lamp look like?
See any arching or blue color, or blackening? Any pitting where the lamp attached to it's lamp socket?
After that in " bad lamp socket" issue is what does the globe of the lamp look like?
You describe minutes instead of a bad lamp socket connection taking around 100 hours less per failure until it gets really too bad to conduct as you describe.
What does the failed lamp look like? Hopefully you don't put a perfectly bad lamp into another fixture to also destroy it also.
If you see a lot of silver about the globe - normally mostly silver, it could be cooling issues - fans and vents blocked. Otherwise especially if the electrodes are blobbed and melting down... it could be a bad ballast - the fixture is old. A fluorescent lamp ballast has a life expectancy of ten years.... moving light ballasts are less.
Post photos of your bad lamps. I if normal life can say within about 100 hours how long it's been used which you can confirm with the lamp counter. Otherwise, I can tell a lot about the bad lamp with what's going on with the fixture.
Read the Osram metal halide notes PDF on lamps, you can also detect fixture problems also.

 

[lonasindi]

I don't think the 700s have lamp explosion detection (the 2000s did), but I'd definitely start at a cleaning and inspection of fans. I haven't met a Mac 700 in the last three or four years that didn't have a couple of lamp fans that were outright dead or one foot in the grave. There's not a lot of parts left for these, so you're on borrowed time.

 

[ship]

I have inspected Mac 700 lamps into probably over a thousand of them. Prefer inspecting such a dual ended lamp as opposed to the modern reflector lamps where I cannot see what's going on. Should you share your bad lamp photo's, I can probably tell a lot from it about the fixture. This as per on Thursday, seeing something on a BMFL spotlight fixture lamp, and attempting to pull the fixture from service, but it's back on a tour. This something the person changing it's lamps didn't notice I saw in noting each lamp installed in a fixture, especially noted a possible cooling issue. In general, for some reason BMFL follow spots go thru lamps quicker than other fixtures, in general in study. Could be just the nature or them being a follow spot and normal lamp expecency but dimmer than wanted with use.

 

[DP1673]

As a lamp inspector and buyer with 24 years experience for all serial numbered moving light lamps which they are.... And from inspecting the rejected lamps, for bad lamp or troubleshooting other fixture problems, the above does not "do the simple first".

My first question is what does the screw and base attachment to the lamp socket on the bad lamp look like?
See any arching or blue color, or blackening? Any pitting where the lamp attached to it's lamp socket?
After that in " bad lamp socket" issue is what does the globe of the lamp look like?
You describe minutes instead of a bad lamp socket connection taking around 100 hours less per failure until it gets really too bad to conduct as you describe.
What does the failed lamp look like? Hopefully you don't put a perfectly bad lamp into another fixture to also destroy it also.
If you see a lot of silver about the globe - normally mostly silver, it could be cooling issues - fans and vents blocked. Otherwise especially if the electrodes are blobbed and melting down... it could be a bad ballast - the fixture is old. A fluorescent lamp ballast has a life expectancy of ten years.... moving light ballasts are less.
Post photos of your bad lamps. I if normal life can say within about 100 hours how long it's been used which you can confirm with the lamp counter. Otherwise, I can tell a lot about the bad lamp with what's going on with the fixture.
Read the Osram metal halide notes PDF on lamps, you can also detect fixture problems also.

Here is the current lamp that is in the 700. I have thoroughly checked and cleaned the fixture to make sure there were no clogged fans or vents. I also tested the lamp in multiple other 700s and those were able to keep the lamp on at 700watts just fine. I'm not too sure if it is a lamp issue considering I ordered 10 new lamps all from the same manufacturer (Osram) and the others are working fine in other fixtures. There are some silver globes in this current lamp but I'm sure that is from lamp strikes and the lamp being on. I can post one of the new lamps that I have for reference. The next thing I will replace is probably the ballast, since that is the only thing left that makes sense since I presume the issue is related to faulty power

 

[brucek]

you know it could be a PF cap. I know Martin recommends replacing them when servicing fixtures over a certain age. They can cause excessive current draw causing overheating.

 

[ship]

The lamp socket exposed by way of the non-gloved hand looks good at least from the photo in not where it mostly archs. It is a B&W (Bender & Wurth) socket, but if no indication from them of it being bad. Granted any arching isn't really in the area of the photo's. But mostly all chrome seen. Both photos are of the same lamp correct? You didn't give us lamp hours but my guess is within a hundred hours of 450?

Silver tungsten bubbles on one side and fill pinch corrosion noted in another photo possibly centered about that..

Ballast would be my choice in replacement. Unlike on other lamps that had a bad socket, this lamp is still young enough it might refresh and work for a few hundred more hours.

 

[DELO72]

The lamp looks pretty good (no obvious signs of heat issues), so I agree with Ship that it's likely a faulty ballast component causing the error code and shut down behavior as a result.

 

[ship]

I so miss the days of dual ended lamp, I stand by my lamp hour estimate in seeing it's electrodes. Thousands of dual ended muti-vapor lamps inspected over 24 years experience. I despise the MR-16 style in not being able to see what's going on in often having to see some clouds and "heavy pyro dust" on the reflector as the real reason for replacement.

That and sent an email to a crew chief on a bulk of Sharpee lamps... Stop saying 500 hours is "hours" for reason for replacement. That much less at over 1,000 hours "High Hours." The lamps are now rated for 3,000 hours so in never having seen a complete snowball before 2,000 hours in more modern lamps, at least call it high hours, at least over 1,000 hours as a reason. Despise the multi-vapor MR-16 type lamps. Very expensive and a slight cloud on them with pyro or other dust on the reflectors easily make them dim and replaced. I miss the demise of the dual ended multi-vapor lamp in having to spend days and weeks inspecting them in the past, Even doing studies which were industry changing. But won't miss the MR-16 version at all.

Doubt it's what it was like in 1964 when dual ended halogen lamps went Leko and Fresnel as modern, and that concept's demise. Those were modern before the single ended lamp version came out - much more efficient, and able to fit into normal fixtures. I once had a 1964 upgraded Fresnel in my theater. 400w lamp... I upgraded it to Altman 65A lamp socket assembly. Than 30 years later re-converted back to the RSC base and reflector as it was for the museum.

 

[Van]

Completely sticking my nose in and using experience from diagnosing electronics rather than LX specific issues. I looking at a photo of the power supply, My first guess from the behavior you are described is an issue with the Higher wattage circuit. I notice there are two chokes and two relays separating the power feeds. other than spending a butt-ton of diagnosing time and then parts procurement My money is on replacing the power supply. Hunting down thermal issues on a PSU board is a PITA. It could be a bad thermistor, bad solder on the board, bad relay, an issue with the choke of power transistors. Poking around in a power supply is also not for anyone who isn't trained or had a lot of experience rebuilding them.

 

[ship]

Your observations are very useful on this concept. Often when I flag an inspected lamp, it's fixture is long gone on another tour. Even if I catch it soon enough, it most often is somewhere in another tour's prep, or to storage at best, if not months after the lamp was changed. I can bling the Equipment Manager to put a service call on the fixture serial number with the above too late results.

More important than all of this is what's presented by the above posts and your first choice of fix. If someone see's what is above, they now know what to suspect. This as opposed to...

 

[DP1673]

Completely sticking my nose in and using experience from diagnosing electronics rather than LX specific issues. I looking at a photo of the power supply, My first guess from the behavior you are described is an issue with the Higher wattage circuit. I notice there are two chokes and two relays separating the power feeds. other than spending a butt-ton of diagnosing time and then parts procurement My money is on replacing the power supply. Hunting down thermal issues on a PSU board is a PITA. It could be a bad thermistor, bad solder on the board, bad relay, an issue with the choke of power transistors. Poking around in a power supply is also not for anyone who isn't trained or had a lot of experience rebuilding them.

Looking at the power and ballast, other than some lite dust, I can't say I see anything noticeably wrong. But then again, I also do not know what to look for so here are some pictures of what my specific supply and ballast look like. I don't want to poke around too much with the power supply since I only have a very basic knowledge of power.

 

[Van]

Looking at the power and ballast, other than some lite dust, I can't say I see anything noticeably wrong. But then again, I also do not know what to look for so here are some pictures of what my specific supply and ballast look like. I don't want to poke around too much with the power supply since I only have a very basic knowledge of power.

In that first photo there are two relays, the two blue boxes on the bottom.; one has 0432 on it. If either has gone or is going bad, say one of the contacts inside is arcing and causing the part to overheat, that screws with power which could lead to overheating of other components. often components have bad solders that, over time, develop cracks which expand when they heat up. They can be fixed but extremely hard to trace, and you need the real tools and know the proper techniques for repairing such issues.
The only Obvious issue from any of those pictures would be the 'Bottom' leg or the 5th component down on the heatsink in the second picture. That solder on that leg looks bad, but really honestly I should not be trying to diagnose an issue based on a photo. there is no way to be certain and again. I do NOT recommend poking around if you do not know what you are doing. There are component that can shock the crap out of you, or blow up in your face.