Good LED PAR for Dance Sidelight

[Chris Chapman]

Anyone have any good recommendations for a good LED PAR to use for sidelight for Dance? The Chauvet gear is 3 pin DMX, and I'd like to stick with 5 pin for ease in my facility.

Do LED Pars have a decent throw for Dance Sides? Right now I use a combination of S4 Pars, and am debating whether or not to just invest in the right number of those to balance hang I need (5 sets of trees).

The LED Par question is in play, because I'm planning on picking up 6 of them for another application. Adding 4 more would complete my dance hang. Or should I be thinking LED Panel instead of PAR?

Thoughts?

 

[theatergeek1500]

Chris Chapman:

They make adapters for 3 pin DMX to 5 pin DMX. Perhaps you could still use your Chauvet gear with an 5 pin adapter. I would just stick with the LED Pars. What kind of Dimmers or lighting consoles do you use at this facility?

 

[Les]

You might look in to Elation for LEDs, but they only state 3-pin XLR as well. Not to keep bringing up Chauvet, but the Colorado's are very nice and should have the throw for this. I'm pretty sure you know about the 5-pin adapters, and I can see why you'd prefer to not have to use them.

To get in to the 5-pin realm, you'd probably have to look at Selador, CK, etc. Types of dimmers, console in use is irrelevant. A better question would be what's your budget, and what other lighting conditions will these side lights usually be dealing with?

 

[SteveB]

Look carefully at the beam/field angles of LED units. They are typically fairly narrow and you might need a spreader lens to replicate an S4 Par.

That then narrows your choices.

As well, if you use barn doors on your current fixtures, they typically do not work well on LED Par units due to the inability of the door to cut into the beam of the wide array of LED's.

Taste test carefully.

 

[Chris Chapman]

I'm running an ETC Ion for Control, and D20AF's for dimmers. I have a lot of conventional 20amp circuits on stage for power as well.

 

[Chris Chapman]

You might look in to Elation for LEDs, but they only state 3-pin XLR as well. Not to keep bringing up Chauvet, but the Colorado's are very nice and should have the throw for this. I'm pretty sure you know about the 5-pin adapters, and I can see why you'd prefer to not have to use them.

To get in to the 5-pin realm, you'd probably have to look at Selador, CK, etc. Types of dimmers, console in use is irrelevant. A better question would be what's your budget, and what other lighting conditions will these side lights usually be dealing with?

The 3pin vs. 5pin was just for convenience more than anything else.

The total budget is probably under $2K, so the lower end Chauvet & Elation gear may be what I'm looking at.

 

[Aman121]

Although more aimed at the dj market, ive always been kinda a fan of the chauvet slimpars. The slimpar 64 RGBA offers allot of bang for the buck, and you can get combo deals at various online retailers. There are probably more professional solutions out there, but for a low budget we need lumens now situation there are many worse options. The slimpars will throw out a lot of light and you can get a pretty decent warm white going for standard use. Ive rented a few for basic lighting for bands and a church play, and they worked pretty good for what I was doing. However,dispersion is very wide, they are more floodlight than anything.

 

[lwinters630]

I am using the elation par zooms and very happy with them.
From 20' trim they will zoom from about 15' down to 1 1/2'. They connect right into the ION. It has RGB strobe and color select. One went bad and it was replaced with no problems. I would think this zoom feature would work for you although I have not had the opportunity to try them in a dance show(next month).

 

[Shnoodell]

A good LED par that is 5 pin that I think you would like is the K9 PUP from stagelight. they come in 25 or 45 degree spreads with the standard RGB color mixing. They range from 200-300 dollars a piece. There is also a par 64 version for another 100 dollars called the bulldog. It is designed with every color grouped together and then a spread of those groups across the face instead of the spread of different colors across the fixture. It also has an additional white LED so you can get more from your color spectrum. For the number of fixtures you want and your budget, these look like they will work for you. Good luck!

 

[derekleffew]

Anyone have any good recommendations for a good LED PAR to use for sidelight for Dance? ...

Some might argue that no PAR, whether LED or incandescent, is suitable for dance sidelight due to quality of field and beam shaping only available with an ERS. Others may accept a PAR64 or Source Four PAR, but the only LED unit that comes close to having as many features is the ETC Desire with a range of beam-shaping lenses.

It may seem a frivolous criterion, but I wouldn't accept a fixture that doesn't have provision for a color/diffusion frame, lenses, top hat / snoot / barn door. (Vari-Lite VLX excepted.)
.

 

[BillESC]

You might want to take a look at Blizzard's Puck Fab 5. Offering RGBAW color mixing using seven 15w five in one diodes it has plenty of output. With a MAP price of just $ 255.55 it's a lot of bang for the buck.

The Puck Fab5

 

[DavidNorth]

You might want to take a look at Blizzard's Puck Fab 5. Offering RGBAW color mixing using seven 15w five in one diodes it has plenty of output. With a MAP price of just $ 255.55 it's a lot of bang for the buck.

The Puck Fab5

Let me start by saying that the following post is not meant to be personally picking on the Blizzard fixture or Bill, because I have high regard for both. I want to point a few technical issues that I see a lot out there and am using this fixture only as a rough example.

The Specs say it can link up to 50 units with its power outlet, yet the outlet has a max rating of 2A and the fixtures each draw 0.71A. It also says that it has 15, 7W LED assemblies, but yet the max power draw is 55W and not 105W.

I am not commenting on color, beam spread, lumens, etc, because as so many people have pointed out, you should really get sample fixtures from your dealer and give them a real try in your space. Everyone's space and needs are different, at least to some degree, and that includes price.

What I did want to point out, is that specs on products do not always add up to what they seem. Having a large number of high power LEDs does not mean that the fixture is designed to drive all of them at the same time at full and in the specified operating temperature range. Power budgeting and thermal budgeting are very common tricks to get a LED fixture to look like its performing at a higher level than it is capable. What does that mean? Well for example, you may have only red turned on at a very high level for a specific look and then as you add other colors in subsequent cues, your red intensity drops. Worse, you could be fine during an initial cueing session and then the light output drops later on as a fixture gets warm. Another option is that the fixure does not compensate for thermal or power and just never drives the LEDs to their full output at anytime. I'm not saying that any of this is what this specific fixture does, becasue I don't know - it's just very common for a fixture to list its emitter wattage and complement which then comes nowhere near its power consumption.

In any of these cases, you cannot judge a fixture solely by the wattage rating of its LED elements. And don't forget some power is eaten up by power supplies and electronics as well.

Be careful and do your research.

David

 

[BillESC]

1/4w, 1/2w, 1w and all other watt ratings are a misnomer and were introduced for marketing purposes.

The 5mm diode was originally marketed is a 1/4w diode and the 10mm's as 1/2w. Were this the case, Blizzards Pixel Storm 240 with 240 - 10mm diodes would consume 120w, however it only uses 17w.

 

[DavidNorth]

1/4w, 1/2w, 1w and all other watt ratings are a misnomer and were introduced for marketing purposes.

The 5mm diode was originally marketed is a 1/4w diode and the 10mm's as 1/2w. Were this the case, Blizzards Pixel Storm 240 with 240 - 10mm diodes would consume 120w, however it only uses 17w.

Indeed this is all marketing noise. LEDs can be run at less than their wattage rating using various methods of current and voltage control which is how 240 LEDs are only using 17W. This fixture is bright only if it is pointed in your face [see demo video for example] and will not effectively light up a surface at a distance. No worries - it's not designed for that.

You have to look at light output and power supply consumption to get an idea of efficacy. Let's face it - few of us are going to do that.

Instead, look at fixture output. Unfortunately this is very difficult to do as there is no set method to adjust for color. Get the fixture in your space and give it a try but please be aware that there are some LED units that are going to use marketing to try and convince you of certain power ratings that may not have bearings on usable light output. Do not look at one color, look at all colors because together they may be less bright if the power supply is undersized.

Always get a demo.

David