help with a build
- Thread starterRaim
- Start date
Raim
Member
its for a new venue. Im in the pre production stages now. I meet with the owner to see the building on monday. just trying to study up a little. Ive never built a rig from the ground up before but i know how to do everything after its all in the air. so i dont have much info. just more wondering about options on hanging pars bolted vs truss or bolted truss vs chain motors.. its a 550 cap venue. classic rock to jazz and small orchestras.
You are absolutely ahead of yourself. Go to your meeting, get stage size, heights, amount of power, available rigging points and budget, then you can figure what is needed. If you are looking to hang a 60K front truss then shoebox dimmers aren't what you are looking for, if you want to hang 6 movers FOH, then you need no dimmers. If you are just hanging a few PARs then shoebox dimmers may be fine, as well as some schedule 40 pipe. Knowing the number of hanging points and load limits will make a big difference in how you hang your lights, plus likely what lights you choose.
bishopthomas
Well-Known Member
porkchop
Well-Known Member
I'm going to second talking to a pro. If this is going to be a facility you're going to work in for years to come, you're going to want it to be prepared now for the shows that are going to be in there 10 or 20 years from now. This is why good theatre consultants get paid. It may seem like a good idea now to save some money on a consultant and spend that on a few more dimmers, or moving light or two, but you will be much better served in the long run if you hire a consultant.
shiben
Well-Known Member
Your inccorect about the LED Can thing. I wouldnt spec an LED can and hope to replace 2 conventional PARs. More like 2-4 LED cans to replace 1 conventional can in intensity.
Now, from an artistic perspective, I prefer conventional PARs to LED PARs for the power of the light, the beam look, and the intensity. Now, LED cans will get you lots of pretty colors and strobe like effects, but if you can afford some MLs, that might be a better choice, and give you some versility with Gobos and colors and movement effects. If it were me, I would spec a mix of PARs, and moving heads, both spots and washes. Size based on the actual size of the venue (throws and whatnot). Conventional PAR64s for frontlight in 3-6 colors (Always want Open White, I like adding Red, Congo Blue, and Amber). I then would spec backlight PARs, 2 lines, one in No Color, the other line with scrollers on all of them (if budget permits, otherwise Red, Blue and Green gels). Enough of the PARs to cover your stage in a nice wash using NSP or VNSP lamps. Now, depending on what the guy running shows is going to like, or what your going to do most in the venue, some sort of mix of short sticks of pipe or truss with 4-8 PAR 64s on them in some sort of interesting pattern over the stage, maybe add a Moving head spot version to either end or a truss or two of moving heads. Probably a combination of both, I tend to think that lots of PARs tend to look better in most cases, and then sprinkling in moving heads for various effects. For moving heads, look to Martin, VL, HES, and Im sure a few other brands would be good too, but go with a major manufacturer, not some junk like Chauvet or American DJ for your gear, if you want to be a pro venue. Same with your PARs for that matter. I would avoid most LED PARs unless you do something like was it deaftones that got hundreds of LED PARs and used them instead of a cyc. Then on top of their 10' or whatever trusses full of them they put strobes and more MLs. If you intend to do rock shows, you will probably want some combination of Atomic 3000 strobes with scrollers and 9 Lights, for audience blinder effects. I would definately also consider investing in 4-8 Source 4 750s in 5 to 19 deg. configureations. Use as specials on the lead singer, guitar, bass, drum, etc when they do things. Also useful for spotting the soloist in an Orchestra configuration without being too obvious, just make them pop a bit more. If you end up doing this, I would imagine a truss in your US LX and DS LX position would be what you would want, but I might be wrong. Make sure these locations can be accessed without hassle, via ladder or on hoists of some sort. I would personally avoid using MLs for your FOH specials, partially because I like the look of S4s better, but also because if you loose all your MLs halfway thru the show and you cant see the band, your not gonna be popular. If your going to have spotlights, possibly get some normal ones from Lycian, Strong, RJ, etc, and also consider using some Moving Spots with the Pan and tilt motors taken out and handles stuck on them. then the LD can control the color, beam size, and templates from the board. That might be too much for your situation, however.
So thats the artisticy part. Once you decide THAT, you can get into details. Questions to ask: How much can we afford to spend? Will that amount drive our decision to buy moving heads, or lots of PARs? How many channels of dimming at >2kW can we afford, and can we afford the power to go to them, the mults and raceways and copper mass that we need to install? What kind of show will we be doing the most? Will it be Rock and Roll, quiet jazz nights, or orchestras? if its Rock and Roll, you might want to look at colors and flash at the audience. if its orchestra, being able to change color in the back, and a smooth front white wash will be what you want. An important question: How will we be able to cool the place? 200+ PARs, 30 MLs, and 550 fans in a mosh pit will make a concert a hot place. How will you cool that (I think this is a valid technical consideration. If you cant cool it to a comfortable level, you might as well not install it because it will otherwise be a waste of money)? Do we have the power to run hundreds of thousands of watts of gear? If we dont, can we afford to get a couple of 600A 3phase company switches or disconects put in? If not, how much power do we have? 200A 3phase is a different kit of gear than 2x 1200A 3phase disconnects, right (dont expect this, thats an obscene amount of electricity, nearly a megawatt at 120V). I think your main questions at your meeting should be how much money do we have to spend on a tech package, what kind and how often do we intend to do shows, and how much are utilities going to be available/cost. Once you have those things ironed out, along with size of the stage, size of your audience area, and trim height, you can begin to develop your package. Once thats sorted out, you can get down to having profesionals install all this stuff with the company you order it all from. Also, dont forget to factor in the cost of a console, and if you get MLs, dont expect to get by on an el-cheapo board. Plan to get an Ion or Eos from ETC, Grand MA, Avolites, Hog, or other modern Moving Light console. I believe Strand and Chamsys both make very capable boards. Im sure other people do too.
kicknargel
Well-Known Member
I third the motion of hiring a consultant. And I'll go farther: the consultant has to be different from the company selling you the gear. You need an experienced, professional, and OBJECTIVE consultant. Don't let an architect get anywhere near the theatrical equipment.
I agree that there is a lot of clarification needed. Are you looking for information on how to hang an instrument i.e. put C-clamp on pipe, tighten bolt, attach safety cable, etc. or are you looking for methods for hanging instrument e.g. McCandless, etc.? Or are you looking for how to design a theater i.e. where to put hanging positions, power requirements, data distribution, etc.?
Sorry, but this sentence just doesn't make any sense to me. You cannot "address though" anything. Are you asking how to address a dimmer or possibly how to pass data through a dimmer pack?
-Tim
P.S. Capital letters aren't just a passing fad that was cool in elementary school.
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