High school students on ladders
- Thread starterAlexDonkle
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RileyChilds
Member
I was always allowed to use our A-Frame extension ladder, at Central Piedmont Community College I was allowed in the lift, on the ladder, in the Cat Walk, on the grid, and using the flys. Later on I learned it was a massive insurance no-no for me to do all of the above as someone under 18...of course I am 18 now 
Honestly Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't be stupid
//Riley
Honestly Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't be stupid
//Riley
The rule used to be at our high school that only anyone over 18 could go up on the 10' ladders or the cat walk. I had students that were under 18 that wanted to do some lighting and sound work. I checked with the administration, they did not know of any policy like that. It did not take me long to train about ladder saftey. I now have help all the time on the cat walk and the 14' step ladder (we have a cherry picker style lift that we only let staff use). Sometimes it is just busy work (remove or install gels, clean fixtures, wrap up cables) to get the students that want to use a ladder a chance to do so.
Fountain Of Euph
Active Member
My high school used ladders quite frequently. They were, for the most part, modern a frames. We had a 10 ft for the lab theater ( 14 ft ceiling) and a 25 or 30 (i think) for the main stage. The bigger one was double sided so two techs could work at the same time. The only dangerous part was putting up and taking down the ladder, which required two or three techs. The only sketch thing was the the "ladder of death": a wood single fly we used to reach the box booms. I was the who primarily used it, however I was also a) a senior, b) fearless/stupid/naive and c) a athlete. We would brace it on the seats, and have someone hold it. We had restrictions too: only focussing/relamping. Any fixturs that needed to be moved had to be done so by the band director.
A thought for the OP: maybe pick up a rolling scaffold. Alot safer than eather a lift or a ladder.
A thought for the OP: maybe pick up a rolling scaffold. Alot safer than eather a lift or a ladder.
Les
Well-Known Member
A few notes on scaffolding which I have seen overlooked.
1). Must have proper railing (supplied by the manufacturer) and;
2). Must have a proper ladder
I have seen a few cases where students were climbing the cross-braces to get to the top of a platform with no rails. This totally negates the safety of a scaffold. Also, lock the wheels and never allow the scaffold to be ridden from one position to the next.
1). Must have proper railing (supplied by the manufacturer) and;
2). Must have a proper ladder
I have seen a few cases where students were climbing the cross-braces to get to the top of a platform with no rails. This totally negates the safety of a scaffold. Also, lock the wheels and never allow the scaffold to be ridden from one position to the next.
Doesn't matter if they are students or not. Proper safety precaution must be followed ALL the time by EVERYONE. Working around ladders you should have two people always. One to climb one to steady / counter weight / safety partner. Both wear hard hat ( WHY NOT ) if the guy above drops a wrench the lower guy get clobbered. Fall protection ALWAYS. Climb ladder, secure to truss / pipe/ structure if you can reach it.
One can never have too much safety gear on to protect yourself, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If you can't do it safely - DON'T DO IT no matter who is telling you to do it, teacher, boss, friend, wife, husband Mom, Dad, - just walk away.
One can never have too much safety gear on to protect yourself, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If you can't do it safely - DON'T DO IT no matter who is telling you to do it, teacher, boss, friend, wife, husband Mom, Dad, - just walk away.
Les
Well-Known Member
As someone with multiple OSHA certifications and what will soon be a degree in Occupational Safety, I fully agree. I used the term "students" simply because that's who I saw climbing the scaffold.
One doesn't usually require a Level A Hazmat suit to operate a mop, but I see where you're going with it and I mostly agree. However, PPE should be a "last resort" after all other engineering controls have been put in to place. If you can neutralize or eliminate a hazard, do that first. If a hazard still exists, don the appropriate PPE. Make the task as safe as possible before throwing on a bunch of PPE and hoping it works.
(I'm all for PPE for the record - I just see too many people who throw on a bunch of gear without thinking the task through and considering that there may be an even safer way to do it which wouldn't put themselves or others in harm's way in the first place.)
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This one is really easy to overlook, but I want to reiterate how important it is. A colleague of mine was saying the other day how he worked at a place where a guy was changing out lights in their warehouse on a 12' ladder. He wasn't far from other people, but managed to fall without making much noise. Nobody heard him fall, and the ladder didn't tip over so it was awhile before they found him. By that time he was in a pool of his own blood and couldn't be saved.
Dionysus
Well-Known Member
It is overlooked ALL THE TIME, just about everywhere. How many stories I've heard. How many times I've heard people saying "why do you need me here? I do this alone all the time" etc etc ad nauseam. Even here where EVERYONE going up a ladder is supposed to have at least at height and ladder training. Most of said training seems to fly out of most people's heads the second the training is over, and it seems such a bother to follow the simplest of safety precautions for at-height work.
This goes double more with students if you let them (and with people who have been doing this for "this long").
On an Extension ladder? HAVE A FOOT! I've actually had to rescue someone before because the ladder took off with no foot. If he had asked I would of gladly footed the ladder.
Then again most of the time it seems to be that many would rather have someone being "productive" rather than standing at the bottom of a ladder.
Oh I could go on all day....
Ladder Safety is SO IMPORTANT.
Anyways...
The local school board several years ago made the determination that NO STAFF OR STUDENTS OR VOLUNTEERS could work at height. This includes custodial staff. This actually allowed them to save a LOT of money on insurance.
Shortly after this was announced my friend and mentor (and highschool drama teacher) let the school board know that this would more or less cease drama class activities including lighting and audio. The school board did not much care at first. Eventually he managed to get the "okay" to have staff and students with appropriate training to work at height UNDER 10'. This is good for most drama classes (a couple schools this would impede).
So schools with taller grids in drama rooms could make no changes to lighting without hiring a contractor to come in.
Time came to do a musical in my old high school, in the "small gym" (both gyms have stages, however the large gym's lighting system is from 1969 and needs to be replaced and there is NO lighting or audio in the small gym. The gym needs to go though a week-long transformation into a theatre. Hang portable dimmers, lighting, audio, etc.).
The only local contractor with the liability the school board required to do the necessary at-height work was a commercial electrical contractor with absolutely no theatre experience. I was asked if I would be able to come in as a volunteer to help make sure things happened, as I was also coming in to help the kids with the lighting and sound design (not volunteer). So I agreed to giving a few hours to help make sure things went okay... This was not enough...
Regardless I had to guide the electricians in re-doing most of the work they had done (from the ground), while they treated me like a know-it-all. Regardless I was doing a friend a favor (which is good, he always gets me back).
After the show the school got the bill from the electricians. They were NOT HAPPY. Basically the money they had saved on insurance had to go into one show. They are lucky I did not give them a bill myself (really I should of).
So it came down to, NO MORE SHOWS or bite the bullet and spend some more money. The question is in what way. In a school board where the usual annual Drama Department Budget per school is $500, there is not much money to throw at theatre. Then again that's why putting on shows is so important, to supplement the budget with funds. And to give the students extra-curricular activities and a richer learning environment in the arts.
They learned their lesson. They picked up their liability insurance back to where it should be. Still anyone working at height has to be able to prove that they have the necessary credentials for the work they are doing. Safety Awareness, WHIMIS, Fall Arrest, scaffolding, lift, etc.. This is good, the training really is necessary I think as common sense is not common at all it would appear. Of course anything the students may help with needs to be supervised by someone who is qualified and responsible, along with any volunteers etc who are qualified needing to be supervised by staff.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
I was on a project site and watched the gc's super stand on the top of a 10' A-frame (I footed the base) instead of getting a 12 or 14'. I refused because my reach was 6" short from second step below top and refused to go to one step below stop with only a masking leg to hold onto. Super was significantly shorter than I and therefore had to go to top. I would have gone one more step if I had something better to hold - like a batten - and was not so close to a new, expensive projection screen - which I couldn't quite reach the frame of. The super did demand we not tell anyone. I admit, I don't where a pfd when I go flat water canoeing unless it noticeably windy.
I hope you at least have it in the boat (I don't believe adults are required to wear, but they are required to have a PFD).
AsherSB
Active Member
I'm a high school student, and our school has 3 ladders, I think something like an 8 foot, 12 foot and a 20 foot extendable A-frame. The school keeps no technical crew on staff, so its students and the drama teacher who hang and focus lights. This normally involves setting up the big ladder under the front of house line, and climbing up and down with lights (anything from lightweight pars, to gigantic Altmans.) We don't have any fall protection, or safety gear, and we let up almost anyone who is brave enough to do it. In fact one of my first days in the theater was spent helping to focus from the ladder. We hang everything on fixed bars and tracks flanking the stage, one of which is almost falling out of the ceiling. The worst part is that this terrible safety procedure is what the school district wants us to do, they took our lift years before I joined, and it has been this way ever since. The sad truth is that theater programs are so underfunded and overlooked that this is the only way to go about lighting a show. But at least we have a theater, our new building might not even have that much.
BillConnerFASTC
Well-Known Member
Yes - and where I can reach it - thank you. And when I'm with Scouts - I wear it - since that's the BSA way.
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