Is your balcony safe?

Question 1: I'm not giving an answer, but the harsh reality is that watching a 2-year old is a full time job. (This type of tragedy seems to occur daily, although the mechanism may be swimming pool, a relative’s dog, a car, a flight of steps, etc.)

Question 2: It will be determined by the skills of the lawyers.
 
In my opinion, no it wasn't the venue's fault at all. The parents are completely to blame...you have a 2 year old child, you pay attention to them and make sure you can see them at all times, I'm sorry but I don't even have kids yet and I know that is responsible parenting.
 
As the venue, isn't it our job to protect our patrons though?

Is it all that unreasonable for a balcony edge to be 2-year-old proof?

I'm certainly not exempting the parents from at least a portion of the responsbility, but I mean, c'mon, almost the entire premise of our jobs as entertainment staff is protecting anyone from any hazards they may encounter while at our events. At the very least, it's the venue's responsbility to say "no children x years old and younger in the balcony areas."
 
As the venue, isn't it our job to protect our patrons though?

Is it all that unreasonable for a balcony edge to be 2-year-old proof?

I'm certainly not exempting the parents from at least a portion of the responsbility, but I mean, c'mon, almost the entire premise of our jobs as entertainment staff is protecting anyone from any hazards they may encounter while at our events. At the very least, it's the venue's responsbility to say "no children x years old and younger in the balcony areas."

Does anyone know if the balcony edge inadequate, or if the poor kid climbed onto a chair then table for example? I've seen kids that rival most rigger's climbing abilities (kid winds up on to of the refrigerator for example).
 
As the venue, isn't it our job to protect our patrons though?

Is it all that unreasonable for a balcony edge to be 2-year-old proof?

I'm certainly not exempting the parents from at least a portion of the responsibility, but I mean, c'mon, almost the entire premise of our jobs as entertainment staff is protecting anyone from any hazards they may encounter while at our events. At the very least, it's the venue's responsbility to say "no children x years old and younger in the balcony areas."
What is "two year old proof"? Seriously, if you're designing a facility what would you have to do to meet that criteria? And if you did that, should you be liable if something still happens? Now extend that to "idiot proof". Is that a realistic goal if even possible? On the other hand, imagine the lawsuits if you denied access based on age or height and could not show a reasonable reason for that specific limit. Lawyers could probably have a field day with that.

If the venue design or maintenance was negligent, then yes, they should assume some liability. However, if they met all applicable code and life safety criteria and made reasonable accommodations, then I'm not sure why they should be held liable, although I'm guessing that won't stop some attorney from pursuing it.

It's interesting to read the comments to the linked article and to the articles it links. In those comments several people express concern over the design of barrier at the suites while others that have apparently been in the facility say exactly the opposite and seem to think that someone, especially a small child, would have to go out of their way to get over the knee wall and the plexi above that. Looking at the picture with the article it looks like there is a knee rail that apparently forms a shelf and then a vertical Plexiglas panel up to about mid chest height on an adult male. Unless some part of that assembly failed that would seem to be a reasonable barrier.
 
From the picture in the article...there is no way a 2-year old would be able to get over that barrier without some serious climbing which a parent or SOME adult in the vicinity should have seen had they been paying attention to their toddler. Unless there is a break in the barrier somewhere there is no way I can see blaming the venue at all in this case. Look at the picture, the glass barrier is up to that ushers neck almost. Barring mechanical or structural failure this is clearly a case of gross negligence on the part of the parents and I hope child services finds that to be the case.
 
In a couple of the articles it said that the railings are all to code. Unfortunately, this a case of the parents not paying attention, there are some accounts that said it was a private box and the parents were taking pictures when he fell. As a father of two I don't understand why people take kids places they have no business being. A two to three year old is not going to remember going to a basketball game so why take him? Watching a child in that big a group is full time work and make watching the game yourself impossible.
This is a shame and a tragedy, much like the Notre Dame accident, that could have been avoided by the adults being a little more responsible.
 
As the father of a two-year-old, who had said two-year-old at the United Center last night, 3 rows back from a balcony rail that looks similar to the one pictured, I can say that I can see how such a thing could happen, but it requires parents who are either irresponsible or flat-out neglectful. My kid makes a habit of climbing on things, and then jumping. Scares the crap out of me when he does it from the couch sometimes, there's no way I'd let him near the railing in a box like that. It's far too easy for someone to bump someone even when you are paying attention. And speaking as a parent who has lost a child, I know the heartbreak is unimaginable. What comes next for these parents will only make things worse. I feel for them, but still feel that there's no way they're fault free.
 
Barrier heights vary: sightline constrained, minimum 26" tall (IIRC); standard is 36" or 40". Either way, modern codes want ALL 'fall barriers' to be "climbing resistant" for this exact reason. Usually this means either solid panels or vertical bars. This is out of memory so this may not be perfectly accurate. If the arena's barriers in the area of the accident meet the codes at the time it was constructed normally no fault is found with the arena.
 
Sounds like other people have had almost-similar experiences. Still, it sounds like they were up to code and the coroner has not found any signs of abuse.

By Jon Weisman:
Two primary situations cause me to yell at my kids.

The first is fear of them getting hurt. Saturday, for example, while my wife worked, I took advantage of an invitation to a Staples Center suite and brought my kids there. The Clippers happened to be playing, but that wasn't why I was going. The reasons were to spend time with the friend who invited me, and to be in a confined space where I could patrol all three of my children.

Except you realize once you get there that the space isn't entirely confined. The Plexiglas in front of the suite is so low, a dachshund could see over it. That consterned me throughout the game, which I was hardly able to pay any attention to, though for the most part the kids were good.

Then, in the fourth quarter, while I held the baby, while my daughter gabbed with her schoolmate, my 4-year-old stood on the ledge to the right of the second row of seats, with a smile. And I could read his mind. He was going to try to jump and land on the ledge right in front of the first row of the suite, fronted only by that low window of Plexiglas. And if he didn't stick the landing, if he stumbled forward, he was going to tumble right out of the suite down to the level below.

I yelled his name. I screamed, "No! No! NO!!!" He took off in the air, and he landed on his two feet.

I practically dropped the baby - I laid him down with such haste that his head knocked against the base of a chair. I scrambled over the seats and grabbed my elder son before he got any other ideas.

I lectured him, sternly, emotionally, angrily, almost tearfully but most of all, hopelessly. I lectured him that he had to listen, that the word "No" was a no-holds-barred stop sign that he had to obey. It's a lecture that I've given him on a different scale hundreds of times now, over matters much less perilous, precisely because I wanted him to make sure he listened to me when it really mattered.

It doesn't work. I keep doing it, but it doesn't work. I don't remember ignoring my father hardly ever in my lifetime, but my son does it a number of times each day. After I finished with him, exasperated, I went to the back of the suite, trying to collect myself - and kicked a cabinet. (Even at a Clipper game, where exasperation is par for the course, this gets noticed.)


The frustration is getting to me. I know he's only 4. I know. I'm trying to do what the books and the sage and my head all tell me, with timeouts and 1-2-3 and not getting emotional. But this kid nearly leaped out of a suite without a net; before that he nearly rode his trike into a street. He's a wonderful boy, but he's got a mind of his own and then some. He has to have what he wants and do what he wants to do. And the fear that it churns inside me makes me lose it and yell at him, because nothing is working and I don't want him to end up in the hospital or worse.

The second reason I yell at my kids is out of impatience. If the previous scenario can at least in part be excused as selfless concern, this second situation is more selfish. Yes, I want the kids to brush their teeth the first time I ask, so that they get to bed on time and get enough sleep for the next school day, but I also want them to do it so that I can get to the things I need to do - like Dodger Thoughts, for example.

If I surrender to the kids, if I turn off the clock and just let the pace dictate the pace, it makes a huge difference. If I do all that, I relax. But it's not automatic. The baby is up by 6 a.m., and with that I'm on the clock, either at home or at work, until my 6-year-old daughter turns out her light at 8 or 8:15 p.m. That doesn't leave me much time to attend to the rest of my life. The pressure builds, and I have to make a conscious decision how to deal with it. Sometimes, it's hard to convince myself to surrender. One day it can feel so easy, and the next it feels so difficult.

Either way, I've already yelled at my kids more than my parents ever yelled at me. In that respect, I'm 180 degrees from the dad I want to be. I can't tell you how ashamed I am of this. I want these kids to be good people, but I have to be more willing to let them make more mistakes. I'm too demanding, too proactive, too protective, too paranoid. I need to toughen up, by letting go.

Over the past few years, I think I've already achieved this with the Dodgers. It takes the extreme to make me angry. I offer my opinion, I react, but mostly it's live and let live, hoping for the best, often settling for something less. Before I started this website, I think Dodger lows got to me more than the highs. Now, it's the reverse. The good moments truly elate me, the bad stuff goes away.

It's not a coincidence that since 2002, the year that Dodger Thoughts and my first child were both born, my kids became the real pennant race. But I have to accept that winning and losing are both inevitable. I don't want to be the brat kicking dirt at the umpire. I want to be the guy who accepts defeat with grace and calm and looks straight ahead to the next game.
 
Again, why the devil would take three kids solo to a game they won't watch or remember. It is taking a risk for no apparent reason.
 
Maybe the tickets are cheaper than the babysitter?


In the end i believe the tickets cost more than the baby sitter would have. All considering they lost a child's life. Personally, i feel its great they wanted to go see a show, but they also have kids to think about, Personally i feel its a case of neglect. I know with any of my family if you went somewhere with your kid your first priority is the child not the game, show, concert, or what have you. It was very rare to ever see a child doing something without their parents watching every move they make.

If i was the deciding judge on this I would make sure the parents know that having a kid is a huge responsibility which may mean giving up some of the things you used to do or get a baby sitter.

Think people, think is all i have to say.
 
As a point of fairness, I want to point out that when Jon took his children to that game, he chose that box suite because he thought it would be a manageable environment. It wasn't until after things got rolling did he realize otherwise. Again, not exempting parents from responsibility, but when you haven't brought your young children to a box suite at the Staples Center before, it's pretty easy to show up with a false sense of security.

We can all admonish the parents after-the-fact, but hindsight is 20/20 and until things go wrong, a false sense of security can go a long ways.
 
I understand the Monday morning quarterback syndrome but a little forethought is also in order. Why bring a small child to an event that they have no appreciation for nor will remember. This has nothing to do with safety, beforehand, but with parenting and consideration for other people. How many times are their unwatched or unrestricted kids in theatres, restaurants and other places that takes away the ability to enjoy the function for the parents if they are watching the kid/s and others if they aren't. Then add the possible safety issues and that is a whole other layer. Just seems to be a change in the parenting paradigm.
 
I understand the Monday morning quarterback syndrome but a little forethought is also in order. Why bring a small child to an event that they have no appreciation for nor will remember. This has nothing to do with safety, beforehand, but with parenting and consideration for other people. How many times are their unwatched or unrestricted kids in theatres, restaurants and other places that takes away the ability to enjoy the function for the parents if they are watching the kid/s and others if they aren't. Then add the possible safety issues and that is a whole other layer. Just seems to be a change in the parenting paradigm.

Oh, bringing kids to watch a show doesn't hold a candle to the stupidity of when people bring kids to load-in/out of a show they're WORKING. Not fun when you're trying to strike lights overhead or hang a few hundred pounds of scenery and a little kid keeps running up getting in the way!!! And that kid certainly isn't going to listen when someone yells heads.
 
Here in Seattle we opened a new baseball stadium about 10 years ago. It was interesting to see the massive railing modification that went into effect between the first and second seasons. They added a hand rail "bumper" in some locations so that if a customer trips coming down the aisle they won't fall off the balcony. Second they added about 6" of height to all railings with little steel posts being welded on top of the primary railings and miles of cables strung between. You can see the extra barrier and the hand rail bumper in this picture (and no I don't know these people).
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I always wondered what the story was. Was it not built to code originally? Did code change and they updated it? Did someone decide that code wasn't good enough? When you think about this on a stadium wide scale, they must have spent several million doing this upgrade.
 
From sports.yahoo.com

Fan falls from second deck in Texas, Rangers-Indians game halted

By 'Duk

In one of the year's scariest moments, a male fan fell out of the second deck while reaching for a foul ball during Tuesday's game between the Cleveland Indians and Texas Rangers in Arlington.

The fan fell onto a crowd of people below and the field was cleared of players as medical personnel sprang to action.

From the Associated Press:

Texas' Nelson Cruz fouled a ball into the first row of seats in the club level along the first-base line, and the fan attempted to snag the ball before losing his balance and tumbling about 30 feet onto the seats below.

Paramedics were on the scene quickly to attend to the fan, who was strapped to a stretcher and taken by ambulance to a hospital.

The game was stopped for 16 minutes and several players on the field looked shaken.


Anthony Castrovince, the MLB.com reporter for the Indians, reports that the fan was taken to a hospital in Ft. Worth and "is responsive and can move all extremities." Meanwhile, the people the fan landed on were treated at the park for injuries not considered serious.

That's seemingly good news to hear after watching the situation at The Ballpark, but it's not as if we can breathe a deep sigh of relief just yet. Remember it was only earlier this year that a fan fell out of the stands at Miller Park and died three weeks later from his injuries, despite being conscious and moving as he was transported off the field.

We'll post any updates if there are any to be had and hopefully they'll be positive reports. In the meantime, be careful out there, folks. Not all guard railings at our ballparks are high enough to prevent every possible fall.

Here's the railing:
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I tried to find an actual video of the event on youtube, only to find a bunch of videos of the reactions afterward. I went to a Rangers game in Arlington a few weeks prior and I do remember the railing being pretty low, though it's more of an optical illusion. From the top of each balcony, the rail looks very low, but is closer to waist height once you get up to it. The balconies are steep, and I recall being very cautious as to not losing my footing on my way to my seats. Obviously though, it is still possible for a fully-grown man to fall over one of these rails when leaping for a foul ball. I would say this is one of those "here's your sign" situations.

Edit: In the photo above, the higher (waist-to-chest level) portion of the railing is just below the stairs leading down to the seating (in the far right of the photo). The lower portion of the railing (just in front of the seating areas) is definitely much lower and evidently not hard to fall over.
 

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