Mackie's new IOS console

[SoundTom]

Your control network should be separate and secure, not the general use WIFI.

Just for the record, our set-up does use a separate and secure network, it just relies on the same hardware as the general-use network (so maybe not completely separate ), with the backup plan being another wireless router we just hook up to the back of the board.

I just wanted to raise the point that, like all things, wifi fails at the least opportune time, but with the only control surface being in the op's hand far from the actual board, the back-up plan is running for the base-station to dock. This contrasts with the use of remote apps for standard control surface boards, where if the wifi goes down, presumably a person near the board would be able to kinda-sorta make things not fail while the op is running back from where-ever he/she was.

Also, I have not been able to find out if the DL1608 comes with an iPad or not, because AFAIK the website never actually says one way or the other. Has anybody been able to find an answer to this?

 

[museav]

Also, I have not been able to find out if the DL1608 comes with an iPad or not, because AFAIK the website never actually says one way or the other. Has anybody been able to find an answer to this?

The Mackie information says "With the Mackie DL1608’s seamless wired to wireless mixing capabilities, you can mix in real time from anywhere in the venue on your iPad®.*", so the "your iPad®" comment makes me think they mean you supply the iPad (the asterisk relates to a footnote that you have to supply a wireless Wi-Fi router connected to the DL1608 in order to enable any wireless functionality). It was also pointed out elsewhere that the contest Mackie is having is giving away a DL1608 along with an iPad, which also seems to suggest the iPad is not included as part of the mixer. One might assume that a download of the mixer app does come with the mixer, however you might need to purchase additional copies if you use multiple iPads. But I agree that none of this is clearly addressed in any of the information I've seen released.

The "plug-ins" and scene recall referenced for the DL1608 are other examples of where more detail would be nice. They say "The DL1608 is loaded with a choice of powerful plug-ins on every channel..." so they may mean that there is integrated processing in the mixer itself that you can 'plug in' for the channels and not that you can use third party audio processing plug-ins.

The marketing also references "Total Snapshot Recall" which suggests that every setting other than the preamp trim/gain is saved and this screen shot, http://www.mackie.com/products/dl1608/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/LOUD_iPad_HiRes3_snapshot.jpg, provides more information. It seems that you apparently can 'safe' channels and some parameters during recall, but maybe cannot do things like not saving or recalling the EQ. They also do not note how long a recall takes or what happens to the audio during that time. And in my mind, the tightly placed and adjacent "Recall" and "Replace" buttons are not a good idea for live sound or theater applications.

I have numerous other question about the DL1608 that do not seem to be answered in any of the information provided to date, but it apparently is 4 months or more until the mixer will actually be released so I guess a lot could change in that time, which may be one reason to avoid offering too much detail.

 

[LXPlot]

iOS crashing itself is unlikely. Third party apps crashing, is sadly common. Tapatalk quits on me all the time.

I was thinking like the iRFR app running at the same time. That's portable.

Yes, it is very hard to crash iOS without self-modifying it or using code written by a third party. I've seen it happen, but rarely...however, OS X Lion has had some problems as of late where it randomly disconnects from from WIFI. I don't know whether this applies to the latest version of iOS, but it would be a very bad thing to happen live.

 

[cpf]

I assume the audio processing happens entirely on the physical console, with the iPad acting as a control surface. Can't imagine that streaming howevermany channels of audio back and forth to an iPad over wifi would ever work reliably, not to mention the horrendous delay it would introduce. This way, if the iPad drops out, the mix will keep going uninterrupted.

 

[bishopthomas]

Looks cool to me. It's a tiny package for 16 channels of mic inputs. It's hard to see the physical layout of the hardware, the macro shots and "action pics" with the hands in it are annoying. The video looks like it might be entertaining on acid but definitely not helpful. I have to return something to Guitar Center tomorrow, if they have one in stock I might just get it to play around with it. I like the ability to bring in audio from any iPad music app and not take up a physical channel. It would have been so simple, though, for them to get a wireless router in there. I wish they could have made that happen and prevent users from carrying around another piece of hardware.

 

[bishopthomas]

Well, apparently it's not out yet, so I won't be getting one tomorrow. I probably still will, though, as soon as it's actually released. I have a few gigs coming up this summer where I'll need at least 6-10 small mixers at once for various locations. This would be great for that. Take a look at this thread on Gearslutz for some hands on comments:

DL1608 Mackie Live Mixer with iPad control - Gearslutz.com

Edit: JUNE release? That does me absolutely no good...

 

[rsmentele]

When given an overview of the product a couple of weeks ago, the rep informed us that the product WILL NOT include an iPad, one has to be purchased separately.

 

[museav]

Well, apparently it's not out yet, so I won't be getting one tomorrow. I probably still will, though, as soon as it's actually released. I have a few gigs coming up this summer where I'll need at least 6-10 small mixers at once for various locations. This would be great for that. Take a look at this thread on Gearslutz for some hands on comments:

DL1608 Mackie Live Mixer with iPad control - Gearslutz.com

Edit: JUNE release? That does me absolutely no good...

Interestingly, the one post in that thread with all the information hit on a topic I had started to post earlier and didn't. It's interesting that a headphone connection and volume control are part of even the minimalist Mackie DL1608 chassis, yet unless you incorporate a third-party wireless IEM system I have yet to find a wireless mixing solution that addresses audio monitoring. It may just be me, but I tend to often use headphones or monitors for PFL, cueing, etc.

Slightly related, I've seen FOH positions with remote monitoring and control of wireless, amps, DSP, etc. that all require running related software an typically a screen and interface separate from those for mixing. Unless you can somehow have all that with you that seems to also potentially also limit the practicality of wireless mixing.

While it is great to be able to setup monitors from the stage or go out into a room to tweak the mix while walking around, mixing often involves more than just controlling the mixer and those aspects are why I sometimes cringe a bit when I see people apparently thinking they're going to stick a mixer back in some closet or not easily accessible location and always mix wirelessly.

 

[bishopthomas]

That's really not what it's for. I don't see a need to be changing crossover points and such in the middle of a show, that's typically done during system tech time before the show. Besides, I have used my computer/tablet for running both Studio Manager and System Architect (or QSControl depending on system) with much success. Now, whether or not you can exit the Mackie app on the iPad, open a new app, then return to the mixer remains to be seen. But again, that's not really what it's for (in my opinion). My typical use of wireless mixing is A) ringing out monitors on solo gigs and B) corporate events where the mixer HAS to be in a hidden location. Only a handful of times have I mixed entire shows on a computer. It's possible but I prefer to have a physical console. One gig we did the client DID NOT ALLOW us to bring the surface and we controlled the iLive stagebox strictly from an iPad. Scary, but when a client says they want it a certain way you have to do your best to accommodate.

I agree about the monitoring situation. That's always one thing I miss when mixing wirelessly. And since the iPad has a headphone jack RIGHT THERE it's frustrating that it cannot be used.

 

[museav]

My typical use of wireless mixing is A) ringing out monitors on solo gigs and B) corporate events where the mixer HAS to be in a hidden location. Only a handful of times have I mixed entire shows on a computer. It's possible but I prefer to have a physical console. One gig we did the client DID NOT ALLOW us to bring the surface and we controlled the iLive stagebox strictly from an iPad. Scary, but when a client says they want it a certain way you have to do your best to accommodate.

I have a university client that routinely uses wireless mixing of their iLive system for lectures, panel discussions, etc. in their venue, the iLive work surface isn't even connected to the system except for events that require it. They also have a wall mounted PL remote at the stage they can use for simple events, those programmable remotes are something I wish more digital consoles offered as I find them very handy in multipurpose venues.

FWIW, just received the latest Mackie pricing and the DL1608 mixer is shown at $1249.99 MSRP and $999.99 MAP. Pretty sure that does not include the iPad.

 

[venuetech]

Has anyone had a chance for any hands on experience with this product?

 

[themuzicman]

Has anyone had a chance for any hands on experience with this product?

It'll be obsolete in a few weeks if Apple updates the dock connector like rumor suggests!

 

[museav]

Has anyone had a chance for any hands on experience with this product?

Not the type of the product that was out and about for hands on demos, but I just received an e-mail that the first production runs have shipped from the "North American", which apparently means Mexico, factory so you should start seeing more hands-on reviews. The e-mail noted that the first few shipments are expected to be taken up by existing pre-orders, so it may take a few shipments before dealers have any in stock.

I think that much of the potential market for the DL1608 may be exemplified by the already existing review on Sweetwater's site that is dated April 23, 2012 with the comment "this is the little best mixer in market: i want it!", indicating it received a five star review from someone who knows it is the best four months before it was even available. The marketing folks at Mackie and LOUD should be congratulating themselves.

 

[museav]

It'll be obsolete in a few weeks if Apple updates the dock connector like rumor suggests!

Not totally obsolete, just not able to be used with the iPad docked.

This has always been one of my concerns with integrating rapidly obsolete, commodity consumer technology into professional and commercial applications as the consumer technology is greatly predicated on a useful life cycle that is much shorter than is likely to be accepted for the related professional and commercial systems and components. If the new consumer devices and technology remain sufficiently backward compatible that can l work, but if not it creates a situation that is not easily resolved.

 

[gafftaper]

I just got my hands on a DL 1608 tonight at my local dealer. I was very impressed. No it's not going out on the next U2 tour, but I can see it being really useful in small clubs, bands, churches, and maybe for small theater groups. The price is amazing considering all they packed in it.

The transfer from wired to wifi control was seamless. The music being played didn't skip at all while we slid the iPad in and out of the dock. I found this really impressive. From what I was told by the dealer (who didn't seem to be 100% sure) the iPad is not doing any of the processing. It's simply a control surface. I believe it does the actual saving of presets, but the processing is onboard the 1608.

To me I think the most exciting idea is using it for a monitor mix instead of something like Aviom. The 1608 can handle up to 10 iPads all connected to it at the same time. You can give each iPad permission to use some features while locking it out of other features. Giving you the ability to hand the drummer an iPad and he'll have complete control over the mix in Aux 4, but be locked out of everything else. That's pretty cool.

I can also see it being an interesting solution for something like a bar Or maybe a banquet room with a couple of different audio sources to adjust and no technician on duty. Just pass around the iPad with everything locked down except a few limited features.

I'm looking forward to see if they expand the line. A 24 or 32 channel version with a few added pro-features could be a really powerful solution at a good price for a lot of venues.

 

[museav]

To me I think the most exciting idea is using it for a monitor mix instead of something like Aviom. The 1608 can handle up to 10 iPads all connected to it at the same time. You can give each iPad permission to use some features while locking it out of other features. Giving you the ability to hand the drummer an iPad and he'll have complete control over the mix in Aux 4, but be locked out of everything else. That's pretty cool.

Thanks for the review! I've read some from other users and it is interetsing to see how the comments vary.

The iPad as a controller with the ability to limit access noted is very nice but since this seems to often be misunderstood, it should be noted that Aviom, HearBack, Roland, Behringer, MyMix, etc. personal mix systems address both remote control and the related audio distribution while current iPad or tablet based personal mixing addresses only the control aspect and not the audio, which then has to be addressed separately. Perhaps not an issue if you are doing personal mixing for floor monitors but likely relevant if you are looking at IEMs.

One complaint I have heard from DL1608 users is that the aux send pre/post switching only affects the aux signals being before or after the fader and that all aux sends are always post all of the channel processing (gate, compressor and EQ) so there is no way to get a signal without all of the channel processing. I hope they change that and allow you to select the aux sends from several points in the signal chain as you do not necessarily want a processed signal for monitors, recording, etc.

I can also see it being an interesting solution for something like a bar Or maybe a banquet room with a couple of different audio sources to adjust and no technician on duty. Just pass around the iPad with everything locked down except a few limited features.

Having watched people drop their iPads on the floor or parking lot and having seen people walk off without their iPad or inadvertently take someone else's, an iPad seems susceptible to being lost, damaged, etc. so I would be wary of handing an iPad that is required for the mixer to function to people unless I had a backup on hand and the parties using it agreed to immediately replace the iPad should anything happen to it while in their possession. The Mackie video with the drugged out hippie may be cool but realistically, would you hand the iPad required for your mixer to work to someone like that? And how would you like to be the BE for the next act?

In the scenarios noted I'd also be wary of not having at least a backup wired mixing option, even if that is the mixer with an iPad locked in it. Something that would still be usable should a wireless controller or the wireless network develop issues.

I'm looking forward to see if they expand the line. A 24 or 32 channel version with a few added pro-features could be a really powerful solution at a good price for a lot of venues.

I think the iPad as the only user interface concept gets less practical with greater channel counts and added features. And since not everyone may be comfortable mixing with a tablet device I am also hesitant to specify a mixer that has no physical controls for venues with multiple users.

In general, I see remote iPad mixing as a potentially very beneficial added functionality for mixers but I am not yet sold on iPad based mixers for any applications other than personal use.

 

[bishopthomas]

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't be handing over my iPad(s) to musicians any time soon. However, most these days have their own, and many are using them on stage already in place of a music stand with music/lyrics.

I agree that 16 channels is about the limit on what I would feel comfortable with during a live situation. If I buy one of these mixers it will be for simple gigs where I just need to throw up a few mics and do not want (or am not able) to run a snake.

 

[gafftaper]

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't be handing over my iPad(s) to musicians any time soon. However, most these days have their own, and many are using them on stage already in place of a music stand with music/lyrics.

I agree that 16 channels is about the limit on what I would feel comfortable with during a live situation. If I buy one of these mixers it will be for simple gigs where I just need to throw up a few mics and do not want (or am not able) to run a snake.

I was thinking for either a band or a church situation that so many people have their own iPads that they could literally bring their own control surface to control their own monitor mix. Just install the software on Jim's iPad and when he plays drums for the church band he can control his own mix.

The 16 channel limit is an interesting point. With the current setup you can fit 8 faders on screen at a time. Then you have to side swipe to access the other faders. That's a strong limitation. However, that problem goes away if you are using pre-recorded scenes. I can see a 24 or 32 channel version being very useful for a theater group with a skilled technician who wants to pre-set everything into scenes. Just tap your way through the show and make minor tweaks. That's easily done on an iPad.

As for the iPad getting lost, there is a bracket you can use to screw it into place on the console, although that kind of defeats the point of having an iPad. Unless you buy two and just plan to have one in place and one for mobile mixing (interesting thought).

In the end it's another one of those budget issues we talk about a lot here. Sure we would all love a Presonus Studiolive with it's iPad interface but we can't all afford that. For some this will give them a lot of power at a very reasonable price. However because of that price there are some big limitations that must be considered.

The more I think about it the more I would want a second iPad on the job at all times.

 

[tk2k]

So seeing as the Apple Dock connector is being phased out, can you swap it for a Lightning port? What about in 9 months when you can no longer buy and iPad with a dock connector, or the form factor changes? Sure you can argue its only a $1k console so bla-bla-bla, but im sure many groups that might consider this product had their last mixer more than 2 or 3 years.

 

[cpf]

You can get an adaptor, though it may or may not allow the iPad to dock securely (haven't scrutinized the product photos).

iPads last pretty long if cared for, but even then I doubt they'll have the longevity of some analog boards I've used.