Mackie's new IOS console

[Grog12]

Mackie's iPad Controlled Mixer Lets Sound Techs Escape the Booth

Barring the fact that a certain user will think its the greatest thing ever ( ) what are all your thoughts on this?

 

[rsmentele]

I saw it the other day.... its OK, it has appeal for obvious reasons, but I don't think I would rely on my ipad to run my show... plus having the tactile fader's and eq knobs is a plus to me... so I don't think I'd spend around $1000 for it. Also, now I have another reason to never leave the sound board. Its hard enough for someone to swipe a sound board if its all patched and such, but with the interface and an ipad, someone could walk by, un-dock the ipad, and its gone.... Not a major concern, but something to think about....
Just my opinion

 

[museav]

There's been a lot of discussion elsewhere on this and the somewhat similar Behringer XENYX iX mixers also recently announced (Behringer Introduces Revolutionary iPad Mixers XENYX iX3242USB, iX2442USB and iX1642USB - Behringer News).

One concern several people voiced is long term compatibility and support. On a recent AV project I needed two different iPad docks and a 'universal' dock with five different inserts along with multiple adapter cables just to handle the existing docking variations in Apple "i" products, so what happens if the next generation iPad is not compatible with the mixer's dock? Buying compatible used iPads off eBay may be a great option for individuals but may not be feasible for schools, professional or public venues, etc.

While some people expressed that seeing it being great that if you did have a problem then iPads are so common that it would be easy to get another one or borrow one, unfortunately that being viable depends on how the related app is handled as an iPad without the app would not be of much value.

There was a definite split regarding the lack of physical buttons and knobs. The interface is probably fine for the targeted basic garage/frat house/bar band applications but likely less than ideal for many theatrical or more advanced applications. No way to know if you have a control without looking and missing things like center/0 detents would likely mean a lot of 'heads down' mixing.

A couple of people pointed out that having the preamp gain/trim on the physical console and possibly no related control or monitoring on the iPad may detract from using the iPad remotely. Hopefully there will at least be a way to tell from the iPad if you're clipping an input.

The theft issue was definitely brought up as well as the potential of damage when using an iPad wirelessly. This is a bit the opposite of the control issue as a theater is probably a less risky environment to be walking around with an iPad than a bar or club.

The ability to have up to 10 control surfaces is potentially very nice for things like a personal mixing system. The possible downside is that it seems that all control surfaces would have full access to everything, I guess we'll have to wait and see if they come out of a different app for such use or the ability within the app to limit access to the controls.

Whit is a bit ironic is that is that once you factor in the price of the mixer and an iPad, if not also a spare, you are getting close to the cost of some of the entry level compact digital mixers being introduced, many of which also support the addition of an iPad for wireless remote mixing. So whether there will both iPad based and more traditional options or whether the manufacturers will wait to see if one trumps the other and then focus future development in that direction remains to be seen.

 

[Stookeybrd]

For the demographic that they are trying to sell to, it is absolutely killer. This won't be used on national tours or for big musicals, but for the small bar bands and clubs this is absolutely killer. It packs a gigantic amount of processing and flexibility at a low price. I tip my hat to Mackie.

 

[museav]

For the demographic that they are trying to sell to, it is absolutely killer. This won't be used on national tours or for big musicals, but for the small bar bands and clubs this is absolutely killer. It packs a gigantic amount of processing and flexibility at a low price. I tip my hat to Mackie.

I'm not going to decide anything until it is an available product with people having had a chance to try out the actual production hardware and software. The Behringer X32 digital console was going to be a 'game changer' for some of the same markets and over a year after being announced and first shown it is still vaporware. Availability for the Mackie DL1608 is currently noted as 'Summer 2012' and I've heard May/June rumors which makes me wonder if the rumored April/May 2012 release for the iPad3 has any bearing on the availability of the Mackie and Behringer iPad based mixers. I could see verifying compatibility with and/or taking advantage of the processing and performance of the iPad 3 being a factor in when they actually go into production.

 

[Footer]

For the demographic that they are trying to sell to, it is absolutely killer. This won't be used on national tours or for big musicals, but for the small bar bands and clubs this is absolutely killer. It packs a gigantic amount of processing and flexibility at a low price. I tip my hat to Mackie.

Agreed. These things will fly off the shelves at banjo centers.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[sk8rsdad]

I could see it being popular with community theatres. Imagine an iPad running QLab. Slap it on the mixer and you've got your show in a tidy portable package. Of course, Figure53 would have to port QLab to IOS but stranger things have been known to happen. The most likely market is small time DJs. Bundle it with a couple of Mackie powered speakers and away you go. A clever person would be able to integrate lighting control too.

 

[chausman]

. A clever person would be able to integrate lighting control too.

Unless the app took two or three minutes to start and get connected to the correct console. Which, may be an issue as well. If the app were to crash, how long until I get control again, and what happens to anything currently running through it?

(oh, and shameless plug for the intro video I found)
[video]http://youtube.com/watch?v=ACo3VgXijlU[/video]

 

[avkid]

Generally modern digital audio consoles do nothing when the software crashes.
Meaning whatever was up when the crash happened stays as it was.

 

[chausman]

Generally modern digital audio consoles do nothing when the software crashes.
Meaning whatever was up when the crash happened stays as it was.

But most (if not all) of those still have dedicatd control surfaces. This one doesn't.

 

[avkid]

But most (if not all) of those still have dedicatd control surfaces. This one doesn't.

However the control surface does nothing when the software crashes.

 

[epimetheus]

That video was so typical Mackie. A far as the actual product goes, just somebody else cashing in on the fruit bandwagon. The only thing I would applaud Mackie for is creating a product that will make them money and attract attention. For the knowledgeable consumer, there are better choices.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

 

[sk8rsdad]

Unless the app took two or three minutes to start and get connected to the correct console. Which, may be an issue as well. If the app were to crash, how long until I get control again, and what happens to anything currently running through it?

Do apple products crash?

Actually, I was applying the idea to the DJ market, not theatre, with some dedicated DMX dongle, but hey, your idea could work too. Kinda defeats the portability angle though.

 

[SoundTom]

I see another potential problem: what happens when the wireless goes down? At my college, we use the M7 iPad app to run monitors, but with a big conference in the building, the wireless has ground to a halt, making the iPad useless. It's a minor inconvenience for us, but what happens when the FOH person using this Mackie is in the crowd and the wireless goes down? How long before he/she regains control (ie: runs back to the board, docks the iPad, and resyncs). Even in small clubs, this is a problem what your headliner is about to start and everything is still muted...

 

[museav]

Generally modern digital audio consoles do nothing when the software crashes.
Meaning whatever was up when the crash happened stays as it was.

But most (if not all) of those still have dedicatd control surfaces. This one doesn't.

In the marketing literature on Mackie's site they say "The DL1608 is loaded with a choice of powerful plug-ins on every channel, so you won’t need to set up additional racks of outboard gear. With just the touch of a finger, you have total control over 4-band EQ, compression and gate plug-ins." The use of the term "plug-ins" suggests that it is actually the app and the iPad handling the audio processing and that's a very different situation than the iPad just being a control interface and not actually part of the audio chain.

The marketing also says "With Total Snapshot Recall*, you can now easily save and access sound check settings for multiple bands, complex song mixes, previous mixes from challenging venues, recall scenes for theater productions and more." So they do seem to be envisioning theatrical applications as an intended market, however they provide no information on how the scene recall actually works or if it is at all appropriate for theatrical applications. I'm not even sure if the scenes are stored on the mixer or the iPad, although I would guess the latter.

These are examples of aspects I think it is important to understand more about before purchasing. While I think some of the new mixing products coming out are very innovative products for certain applications, I really hate that manufacturers are marketing products with little or no information other than marketing material long before anyone can actually demo or review an at least close to production product. I hope I'm wrong but I foresee too many people purchasing these mixers based on the marketing only to find them to not be all they thought they would be but also not wanting to admit they jumped the gun.

An example of questionable marketing is the "Install Friendly Features" marketing where it says "The Mackie DL1608 is perfect for installing in venues. With its easy to use Master Fader iPad application it has never been easier to train up new sound engineers. Plus, forget the bulky racks of outboard gear, the powerfully small, low profile design lets you install it just about anywhere." They seem to be suggesting that the DL1608 is especially appropriate for installed applications but then go on to not address anything actually relevant to that. I'm trying to find the "install friendly" aspects but it doesn't appear to be rack mountable, it doesn't have rear panel connectors, it requires a secondary device to operate (not to mention one for which most contractors will not be dealers nor can they warranty). It's not tech rider friendly and I'm not sure about installing a mixer for which one of the primary advantages is letting people walk off with the part that makes it all work. So where are the actual "install friendly" features? That doesn't make it a bad product, it does seem to make it questionable marketing of the product.

 

[chausman]

Do apple products crash?

Actually, I was applying the idea to the DJ market, not theatre, with some dedicated DMX dongle, but hey, your idea could work too. Kinda defeats the portability angle though.

iOS crashing itself is unlikely. Third party apps crashing, is sadly common. Tapatalk quits on me all the time.

I was thinking like the iRFR app running at the same time. That's portable.

 

[chausman]

In the marketing literature on Mackie's site they say "The DL1608 is loaded with a choice of powerful plug-ins on every channel, so you won’t need to set up additional racks of outboard gear. With just the touch of a finger, you have total control over 4-band EQ, compression and gate plug-ins." The use of the term "plug-ins" suggests that it is actually the app and the iPad handling the audio processing

If your right (more then likely), then what's the latency going to be?

Although it is possible to lock the iPad in, that defeats the purpose.

It is cool you can use up to 10 iPads at once, however.

 

[avkid]

I see another potential problem: what happens when the wireless goes down? At my college, we use the M7 iPad app to run monitors, but with a big conference in the building, the wireless has ground to a halt, making the iPad useless.

Your control network should be separate and secure, not the general use WIFI.

 

[Footer]

We had Asleep at the Wheel in several months ago. They had an M7 running as their monitor console. To mix FOH, the engineer had a tablet running studio manager connected via wifi that also controlled the M7 alongside the monitor engineer. They patched in two drive lines to our PA and that was it. The did give us a split that we patched into our house console just in case something went wrong. According to the guys, they have to use the backup console very rarely. They did have a rather large wifi antenna and were using a private network. Seemed to work for them. These guys use this rig on about 150 stops a year.

 

[museav]

Line 6 also has an apparently very innovative mixer coming out, the StageScape M20d. The physical form factor is pretty unique but more unique is the operation. They have tried to make it where an inexperienced person could plug in the inputs and outputs, define what they are from among numerous preset selections and the mixer does the related setup automatically, down to even watching the input level and automatically adjusting the trim if needed, and creates a pictorial icon on the screen. Touch the icon and you get the controls for the related channel, however instead of the traditional processor controls you get controls that define the sound in lay terms and then adjust multiple parameters based on that. At the same time, you can bypass much of the automation and make manual settings, sometimes with more than one 'layer' of transition from automatic to full manual adjustment.

They have also tried to apply that same concept to the overall system with powered speakers and subwoofers that you link together and that then automatically configure the system based on the use defined.

The pros are that this might be a great approach for those situations where you will have less experienced operators who don't really need to learn how to put together a basic system or mix and don't necessarily have a complex application or need the best mix possible, they just need to do get a decent sound from the system with minimal training or experience. The biggest con I see is that someone who has only worked with such systems would be completely lost when faced with a more traditional system or mixer approach or a problem since they're not really learning the actual what, how and why behind what they're doing.

Seems like a lot of new and innovative small to medium format mixer options coming out over the next 6 months or so, not only bringing digital mixing to lower price points than ever but also introducing dramatically different approaches to the user interface and the operation of the mixer.