mics and pit orchestra on stage

[hamlett22]

A little advice needed on pit sound and actors on mics sharing the same space as the musicians.

We are putting up spelling bee. I am designing the set as a 1950s period gym-a-torium. I was thinking it would be fun to put the pit on stage this year to use that false hole in the wall stage space for the show. Add a little function to the form.

That said, I am looking at all the pros and cons and thinking performer vocal reinforcement.

We have a nice system in place for our musicals: Shure UR4D wireless transmitters/receivers and countryman mics. Normally our pit is in the pit so inadvertent amplification has not been an issue. But if we put the pit on stage (7-9 musicians and drums) my first concern is sound. Can the Shure UR4Ds cancel out or ignore/block the pit musicians so that if we increase levels on an actor we won‘t increase sound from the pit?

Stage setup: false stage (hole in the wall) set piece U.S.C. nestled into a ‘gym wall’ set piece. Actors play from c.s. line to d.s.

Total depth of stage is 38’. The pit would be set up from 22’ U.S. of apron to 33’ U.C. Actors would always play down stage of the pit located u.s.

I am hoping to confront these audio issues before forging ahead with the set design. Any advice on this topic would be appreciated.

 

[MNicolai]

There's no special technology to cancel/block the pit from your mic's. If they're on stage, you can put them behind plexi or ask them to play quieter AND ask your actors to project their voices -- the better your source signal from your vocal mic's, the less amplification is needed. May also mean asking a drummer to play with bundled rod sticks if they cannot maintain low enough sound levels from their normal sticks. Acoustically, if they're getting shoved against a concrete wall or buried at the back of your fly loft, I would would also throw up curtains and other acoustical treatments near them to minimize the echoes and reverberant sound to provide more clarity.

If you're pushing them far upstage into a corner, I would also be cognizant you will want to time align them in the main sound system by adding input delays on any mic's you have on them. Otherwise the acoustic sound may arrive 20-40ms later than your amplified sound.

It's not uncommon to put a pit orchestra stage. I've done it myself and seen others do it. Just need to take precautions and make sure everyone is on the same page. A lot comes down to your mic technique, your actors' ability to project, and your musicians' discipline to not get louder as they play. The conductor, director, and stage manager need to harp on that throughout the rehearsal process so there are no bad habits to break during tech week.

Hands down the best way to keep the instruments out of your vocal mic's is to have a strong enough vocal source that you don't need push the gains excessively on those mic's.

 

[DrewE]

As was briefly mentioned, pay attention to microphone technique and placement. Getting the microphone as close as possible to the source of sound (the mouth of the vocalist) will help a lot with source isolation. In any case, it's always the loudest sound at the microphone that wins; they don't differentiate distances or sources. (For directional microphones, of course, the direction of the source does also come into play; but I doubt you have directional lavalier microphone capsules, nor do I believe you'd want them.)

Performers that project well are indeed very, very, very helpful here, as are instrumentalists that listen to what's going on and are sensitive to using appropriate dynamics. Unfortunately, materializing them out of thin air for a school show is just a tiny bit beyond our capabilities in technical theater, although of course we should encourage good artistry and technique as much as possible.

 

[TimMc]

Loudest sound at the mic, wins. If you think the band/orchestra will be quieter than your school age singers (except for the 2 or 3 that really sing), you've set yourself a stage to be filled with unhappy parents, frustrated students, and disapproving administrators. Seriously. If I were jesting I'd call you Shirley. /nudge, wink

So... if you're inextricably wed to this - do whatever it takes to keep the band at a workable level.

One of the summer stock companies I've worked with has a producing director that wants a big sonic distance between dialog and orchestral underscoring. So what does he do? He puts the cast right down stage, 2 feet from the pit, and then directs the audio department to turn down the orchestra and turn up the actors. Uh... the actor's mics ARE the orchestra pick up. The orchestra mics are muted. The only orchestra in the PA are the keyboards. As the music director is a Sacred Object, NOBODY - including the producing director - will demand that the orchestra's acoustic output be reduced. Pianissimo is a foreign concept... but it's the audio departments fault. This is the kind of bullshit you want no part of.

As much as I hate them, I would consider doing the show with tracks and have the band "lip sync" it it is not possible to arrange the needed acoustic isolation and the band cannot be removed from the stage.

 

[hamlett22]

Thank you for your comments and advice. It all makes sense. I just wanted to check that I wasn't overlooking a tech workaround that would help me out. All the best,
Chad

 

[themuzicman]

I just wanted to check that I wasn't overlooking a tech workaround that would help me out.

e-drums, or throw the drum kit in another room

 

[FMEng]

e-drums, or throw the drum kit in another room

Yes, the drums are always too loud and they influence the level the rest of the orchestra.

 

[Aaron Becker]

You could try what I saw an old director of mine did many years ago... Just drop a full curtain traveler DS of the full-upstage pit orchestra halfway through tech week because, "it looks better now." that was a fun week. I guess she didn't want the audience to see (or hear) the pit anymore.