Moving Lights for High School

[jglodeklights]

I agree with Alex on this point. I work with a local high school, and for them owning moving lights does not make sense. Even constructing a new PAC as they are, they will not have the staff in place to maintain and operate them properly. Even with the space rentals they will now be able to obtain, it doesn't make sense. They will not have the staff either. If I need movers for a show, I will rent them, as they have done in the past. On a similar note, another local high school that hosted a conference has a Congo Jr. with a 2x20 wing (no touchscreen) - ......................................... Why? They have 220 dimmers, no moving fixtures or DMX accessories. They have no one truly capable of programming it properly. So why? The students aren't learning how to use the console. I have an Express 48/96 at my high school. It is PERFECT for teaching the students basics of programming and lighting control technology because it is so simple. With moving lights I can show them, easily, how altering an individual control channel affects the fixtures. Sometimes it is better to upgrade accessories and conventionals than just going willy-nilly with ML's that will be used 2 weeks a year and cost you x number of dollars in maintenance.

 

[Jawbone]

I think you are right that students should be taught how to use this kind of gear, but the school has to have the infrastructure to support it. High school that departments generally don't have a staff person who is in any way trained or capable of teaching how to use moving lights, let alone how to service them. Not even all of the good college programs have people like that (for that matter not even all professional theatres have someon on staff who can fix/service a moving light). Also, most high school theatre departments don't have the budget to support the fixtures.

The other thing is that the students who are interested and have the knowledge, drive, and desire to excell in high school theatre tend to come in waves. Some years they come out of the woodwork, and some years you get one or two.

So it really is a question of what is the best way to expend resources. Often times it is better idea to rent units on an as-needed basis because you don't have to worry about the maintenance and upkeep. You don't have to worry about them units sitting unused when there is no one who knows how to use them. It is just a matter of determine what is really the most practical and useful way to utilize technology.

Renting is great for as needed, knowledge comes from constant use and access. But to me the clincher is the student said there was an interest that had some support to be explored. I say grab it while the support exists. If your school or club will support a budget for a couple of movers, bully for you. Learning on those unit will put you ahead of the curve, as my friend said above many school and even college programs still do not teach this.

That being said he is also right on programming and learning how to service those fixtures is key. Before buying, make sure your advisor or teacher is willing to put the time in to learn the lighting console you will need and basic mover servicing. 3 day courses can be attended on consoles and the service course I took from High End Systems on movers I've applied to other model, mover design is very similiar for most units, motors, lamps and ballasts. Both are technical, but nothing a high school student would have difficulty with if taught properly. I mean if you can program conventional theater fixtures, it is not a huge leap to programming movers.

But in an educational setting my friend is right, it is not just about a single year of interest. But I also feel interest is fostered by exposure. (p.s. try to invest is a decent hazer while you are at it, long moving beam lines rock!)

Live long and prosper

Jawbone

 

[MNicolai]

...has a Congo Jr....The students aren't learning how to use the console.

I'll admit it was tough getting into Congo at first, which was the fault of our vendor for not providing us the proper training on it.

That said -- I've got a Congo and a Congo Jr. at a school/roadhouse, and everyone loves it. For a short while after the purchase, we considered trading it in for an Ion and ETC was willing to let us do that, but after we compared both consoles, we decided to stick with Congo.

We've also got a couple other high schools and a roadhouse in the area that use Congo-series consoles, and another venue I'm currently working at is getting ready to give up on their Light Palette VL and get a Congo. The TD's been banging his head against the wall since he bought up 42 Selador fixtures because the LP VL doesn't play nicely with movers or with x7 color-mixing. We did side-by-side comparison of the features in the LP VL that weren't working for us with the features in Congo -- everything that was giving us headaches on the VL was "fixed" in Congo.

I taught myself with the built-in training projects (and most importantly, the built-in visualizer) how to program ML's and mess with things like dynamic effects. After I got good at programming ML's (even though we didn't have any), my programming for conventionals sped up a lot.

The best part are the training projects. I can sit a student down who's never touched a lighting console before in their life and in four hours have them comfortable programming conventionals and moving lights -- did this two weeks ago actually and the student went off to one of the other nearby venues with a Jr. and programmed on it on her own without any problems. Just a few days ago I sat another three students down in front of our Jr., opened a training project, and showed them how to program ML's and effects -- then had them program 45 cues for a 4min rock song. They walked away with an infinitely better understanding both of moving lights as well as of what a good workflow is for programming on any console (not just Congo).

Experiences vary, but the people growing up on Congo consoles who are being given a proper education on it will only give their consoles up over their dead bodies. I work a group of 6-8 high school programmers who just love the console to death and haven't had any problems getting used to it.

If not for those training projects, I wouldn't feel comfortable bringing in a rig of ML's for a dance rental next week and having our students program the show, but after poking around in the training projects for four hours, they've got this stuff down and I have the utmost confidence in any of the half-dozen of them that I'll be rotating in and out of the programmer's seat.

For the pure sake of standardization, I'd say that venues that have lots of groups come in with their own programmers, get an Eos-series console because more people in the States know it. Situations where the venue usually supplies the programmer and usually any group that brings their own programmer is also bringing their own ML's and lighting console, get a Congo. Congo is a "programmer's desk". An Eos or an Ion are a "venue's desk" where a given programmer may only be using the console for a night or two.

 

[shiben]

I'll admit it was tough getting into Congo at first, which was the fault of our vendor for not providing us the proper training on it.

That said -- I've got a Congo and a Congo Jr. at a school/roadhouse, and everyone loves it. For a short while after the purchase, we considered trading it in for an Ion and ETC was willing to let us do that, but after we compared both consoles, we decided to stick with Congo.

We've also got a couple other high schools and a roadhouse in the area that use Congo-series consoles, and another venue I'm currently working at is getting ready to give up on their Light Palette VL and get a Congo. The TD's been banging his head against the wall since he bought up 42 Selador fixtures because the LP VL doesn't play nicely with movers or with x7 color-mixing. We did side-by-side comparison of the features in the LP VL that weren't working for us with the features in Congo -- everything that was giving us headaches on the VL was "fixed" in Congo.

I taught myself with the built-in training projects (and most importantly, the built-in visualizer) how to program ML's and mess with things like dynamic effects. After I got good at programming ML's (even though we didn't have any), my programming for conventionals sped up a lot.

The best part are the training projects. I can sit a student down who's never touched a lighting console before in their life and in four hours have them comfortable programming conventionals and moving lights -- did this two weeks ago actually and the student went off to one of the other nearby venues with a Jr. and programmed on it on her own without any problems. Just a few days ago I sat another three students down in front of our Jr., opened a training project, and showed them how to program ML's and effects -- then had them program 45 cues for a 4min rock song. They walked away with an infinitely better understanding both of moving lights as well as of what a good workflow is for programming on any console (not just Congo).

Experiences vary, but the people growing up on Congo consoles who are being given a proper education on it will only give their consoles up over their dead bodies. I work a group of 6-8 high school programmers who just love the console to death and haven't had any problems getting used to it.

If not for those training projects, I wouldn't feel comfortable bringing in a rig of ML's for a dance rental next week and having our students program the show, but after poking around in the training projects for four hours, they've got this stuff down and I have the utmost confidence in any of the half-dozen of them that I'll be rotating in and out of the programmer's seat.

For the pure sake of standardization, I'd say that venues that have lots of groups come in with their own programmers, get an Eos-series console because more people in the States know it. Situations where the venue usually supplies the programmer and usually any group that brings their own programmer is also bringing their own ML's and lighting console, get a Congo. Congo is a "programmer's desk". An Eos or an Ion are a "venue's desk" where a given programmer may only be using the console for a night or two.

See, I learned the Congo series first, but really was never satisfied with it. Did some training with it, did some of the onboard projects, and just never liked the way it programed. Started with an Ion and never looked back. I think it was because the Congo series is opposite to how I think about a command, and it just never clicked for me. I hate it, but I can see where a good programer would love the console. Same with any console tho, really...

 

[LXPlot]

See, I learned the Congo series first, but really was never satisfied with it. Did some training with it, did some of the onboard projects, and just never liked the way it programed. Started with an Ion and never looked back. I think it was because the Congo series is opposite to how I think about a command, and it just never clicked for me. I hate it, but I can see where a good programer would love the console. Same with any console tho, really...

Yeah, the RPN kind of bugs me. It isn't so much that it would take a long time to learn, but if you learn on that originally, like as a high school student, and go on to another board without being properly trained, you're going to take a lot longer than if you had learned on Express or Eos or Palette. Also, I do not see it being all that good for programming moving lights as it by default isn't tracking.

That said, I've never really spent much time behind one so my opinion is by no means strong.

 

[icewolf08]

We've also got a couple other high schools and a roadhouse in the area that use Congo-series consoles, and another venue I'm currently working at is getting ready to give up on their Light Palette VL and get a Congo. The TD's been banging his head against the wall since he bought up 42 Selador fixtures because the LP VL doesn't play nicely with movers or with x7 color-mixing. We did side-by-side comparison of the features in the LP VL that weren't working for us with the features in Congo -- everything that was giving us headaches on the VL was "fixed" in Congo.

I have no extensive experience behind either Congo or the LP VL, but somehow I doubt that the VL actually has any issues with movers or selador fixtures. I have seen the VL handle movers and LEDs just fine.

I have ever sat both desks down side by side, but I would venture to guess that if you are more familiar with Congo, the problem was probably not the console itself.

All this is not to say that you should have stuck with the VL. You got the console you like and are familiar with.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=40.734735,-111.866436

 

[MNicolai]

I have no extensive experience behind either Congo or the LP VL, but somehow I doubt that the VL actually has any issues with movers or selador fixtures. I have seen the VL handle movers and LEDs just fine.

If it was normally playback, it'd be "tolerable", but busking LED's is awful, and the Light Palette's color engine ignores the Amber, Red-Orange, Indigo, and Cyan LED's -- so if I do use the color picker, it'll only mix to the "right" color with the RGB LED's. If I do a rainbow effect, it'll only use the RGB LED's.

The faders, despite which way we configure them, always have weird flickering where we'll try to change colors on the submasters only to have the LED's flash to white periodically for no apparent reason. Also, sometimes the console forgets which fader had control of the LED's last, and when we fade down four separate looks of different colors, some the LED's will remain at a dim red or a dim blue.

As a roadhouse, we're almost always only busking. Sometimes we'll see a rehearsal, but mostly not. The only way we've found to get the Light Palette to behave is to record everything into cues and spend the whole night typing [Goto] ## [In Time]. It's not sane. I've played email and phone tag with Strand quite a bit to try and find better solutions, and nobody has been able to give us a solution that really, really works for us -- just an occasional solution that was a little less terrible than the previous one.

We spent a lot more money on the LED's than we did on the console, and the console is what's holding us back. In January I'm bringing a full-size Congo in and we're going to do a side-by-side.

 

[Sayen]

I know I've said this before, but I disagree with the sentiment that high schools should not have movers. Certainly the concerns in this thread are valid - you need a console that supports it, and staff that will maintain it above all else. They should also be a late purchase, after you have enough conventionals (is there such a thing?) and accessories. Enthusiastic students are great, but they move on to other things after four (five!) years.

We have a small suite of DMX devices, including four moving lights and six I-Cues. The I-Cues are a simple device and a great starter for training in terms of not only how they move, but how the device works (you can see the parts) and how to use the lights on stage. The great thing with I-Cues is there's really only one variable to deal with, instead of adding color and gobo changes, so beginning programmers aren't overwhelmed. The movers are all low end, used devices. Having them on campus means students can train with them any time. The catch to renting is that it's only a once a year event.

I have a flight case for ours, and we drag them out along with a portable console (moving to a laptop soon, I hope) for assemblies and such. We've used them as spotlights in the lobby for various events, and of course break them out during rock shows. They aren't quite useful for plays, but every now and then one will see service if there's a need. And when they break down, we take them apart and learn how to fix them.

 

[venuetech]

I know I've said this before, but I disagree with the sentiment that high schools should not have movers. Certainly the concerns in this thread are valid - you need a console that supports it, and staff that will maintain it above all else. They should also be a late purchase, after you have enough conventionals

We have a small suite of DMX devices, including four moving lights and six I-Cues. The I-Cues are a simple device and a great starter for training in terms of not only how they move, but how the device works (you can see the parts) and how to use the lights on stage. The great thing with I-Cues is there's really only one variable to deal with, instead of adding color and gobo changes, so beginning programmers aren't overwhelmed. The movers are all low end, used devices. Having them on campus means students can train with them any time. The catch to renting is that it's only a once a year event.

I have a flight case for ours, and we drag them out along with a portable console (moving to a laptop soon, I hope) for assemblies and such. We've used them as spotlights in the lobby for various events, and of course break them out during rock shows. They aren't quite useful for plays, but every now and then one will see service if there's a need. And when they break down, we take them apart and learn how to fix them.

I would tend to agree with this approach to movers in high school inventory.
Keep it simple. They are there to expose students to this aspect of stage lighting.
don't sink big bucks into top of the line fixtures. but dont buy into the cheep stuff.
believe it or not there is not a rental house in every community. but getting this technology into the hands of students is worth the price. A take apart fixture can be as useful as a working unit.

just don't blow the entire budget on movers.

 

[LXPlot]

If it was normally playback, it'd be "tolerable", but busking LED's is awful, and the Light Palette's color engine ignores the Amber, Red-Orange, Indigo, and Cyan LED's -- so if I do use the color picker, it'll only mix to the "right" color with the RGB LED's. If I do a rainbow effect, it'll only use the RGB LED's.

The faders, despite which way we configure them, always have weird flickering where we'll try to change colors on the submasters only to have the LED's flash to white periodically for no apparent reason. Also, sometimes the console forgets which fader had control of the LED's last, and when we fade down four separate looks of different colors, some the LED's will remain at a dim red or a dim blue.

As a roadhouse, we're almost always only busking. Sometimes we'll see a rehearsal, but mostly not. The only way we've found to get the Light Palette to behave is to record everything into cues and spend the whole night typing [Goto] ## [In Time].

Have you tried simply recording a bunch of different color or color looks into Palette Buttons, highlighting the units, and using those?

Which software version do you have? I would recommend finding 10.8.4 and trying that, if that doesn't correct the flickering try 10.7.3.

As for your color mixing problem, I would say people should continue to send them emails and hopefully when 10.8.5 rolls around they'll include updated profiles and color space.

 

[Esoteric]

There is only one other board that is harder to use for controlling moving lights, and it's this one.

I used to busk movers off a 48/96 4 nights a week with a new band each night. Its not that difficult.