Multi-channel broadcast quality video capture

[crimsonwombat]

I am in the earliest stages of spec'ing out a system for a show archiving/broadcast system for our new theater (this is a 650 seat w/balcony school theater - don't ask why this wasn't part ot the initial design ... it was ... sort of ...)

Any way I could use some tips on where to start my journey for gathering information and equipment specs. We are looking for something that would allow real-time mixing of video from three remotely operated PTZ cameras. Audio would be pulled from our digital mix board and sync'd via SMPTE (most likely). We would also like to mix in a full res signal from the theater projector (so I'm guessing we need at least 4 input video channels on the video mixer). We expect to capture all four input feeds as well as capture a live video mix and broadcast the live mix via a QuickTime Broadcast server. All the relevant mixing and broadcast equipment would be co-located in the control booth.

At this point I'm just looking for suggestions on web sites to check out or perhaps manufacturers to focus on. My google searches have gotten a bit overwhelmed by hits for security camera systems and this system is meant to be a show archival system (HD would be nice but the storage might become prohibitive) We will be archiving a wide range of events from simple presentations to full on musical theater. The ability to present a live mix of the various video feeds plus the ability to perform a post event re-edit is essential.

Thanks for any hints and guidance.

 

[ruinexplorer]

Quick question, if it is just for archival purposes, what more are you looking for that the security programs aren't offering? Are you looking for a higher quality image? Is there a specific functionality that you are not finding?

The reason I ask is that the security programs are very user friendly that can be used with less training. They may also be better for a lower budget. Of course if there are specific things you aren't finding, I'm sure we can help you find more specific equipment.

 

[crimsonwombat]

The issue is quality. We want our capture product to be useful for real-time streaming on campus, off campus (much reduced in bandwidth obviously) and also as input to a post edit process which creates a sellable quality HD product. The immediate market for the post edit would be cast and cast families but also for admissions/marketing and alums.

We are looking on the higher end of solutions here. 320 x 480 or 640 x 480 won't cut it at all. To give you an idea we will be capturing 32 channel audio as well as the live stereo mix as well to allow for a post production edit of the audio.

We would not do this level of post production on every show but we would do it at least a dozen times a year with our yearly musical being the most demanding use. This is being viewed as a long term and significant investment in capability.

Perhaps a security type system IS an option and I'm just not aware of the possible quality in such systems. I'm certainly willing to look at that option and I may have discounted them unwisely.

I'm an audio guy and not particularly a video guy beyond the occasional Final Cut and Shake hacking.

 

[ruinexplorer]

Anyway, I could use some tips on where to start my journey for gathering information and equipment specs. We are looking for something that would allow real-time mixing of video from three remotely operated PTZ cameras. Audio would be pulled from our digital mix board and sync'd via SMPTE (most likely). We would also like to mix in a full res signal from the theater projector (so I'm guessing we need at least 4 input video channels on the video mixer). We expect to capture all four input feeds as well as capture a live video mix and broadcast the live mix via a QuickTime Broadcast server. All the relevant mixing and broadcast equipment would be co-located in the control booth.

. . .this system is meant to be a show archival system (HD would be nice but the storage might become prohibitive) We will be archiving a wide range of events from simple presentations to full on musical theater. The ability to present a live mix of the various video feeds plus the ability to perform a post event re-edit is essential.

It sounds like you are looking for two different things in a single package which is where you are getting some difficulty. First off, you are looking for the raw footage to be able to edit later, so you need recording capability. I don't know of any system to record multiple sources in that quality since the processing power would probably make the system very expensive. I would assume that you would look into digital video recorders for each input.

Secondly, you need to mix/switch the live feed. When you mention the signal from the projector, I assume that you mean mixing the same singal as what is going to the projector. For this I would recommend any number of video mixers, assuming that you will have an operator and not needing an automatic system. There is a large price difference on these, so possibly if you could give a rough estimate of budget, we could start pointing you in the right direction.

 

[MarshallPope]

My old high school's new PAC has something very similar to what you are describing. This article may give you a few ideas, and I would be glad to put you in touch with their broadcast journalism teacher if you would like.

Panasonic USA Pressroom

 

[SHARYNF]

I think Marshall's article is a good start, with a few changes

On the camera side of things the cameras they are using are all set up to be manned like in a studio, for PZT I would look at the Panasonic HD cameras
You could use 5 of the hd recorders mentioned one for each camera, the projector feed and the final mix, and for audio, I would suggest that you look at a system like the Alesis HD24 using 2 of them for a total of 48 tracks.

I do think that when you get it all done you will find that recording raw each of the inputs is not effective and you are better training people to do a proper mix, since re editing programs after the fact seems to rarely get done

I ran a program very similar to what you are doing, using more modest systems to train teens on live broadcast. So for those purposes we could work with a lower level of quality SD but still have all the functions


So we used 6 Canon VC C50I pan and tilt zoom cameras, controlled by two Telemetrics remote controllers. We fed this to a Panasonic MX50 that had been expanded to allow for the selection of additional inputs. We used a Extron VGA to YC converter for Computer based inputs, and we recorded directly to a Panasonic DMR eh55 dvd hard drive recorder. We had several other Panasonic DMX eh55's that we could select and switch to record to be used for instant playback ( part of the program was video ing sports events (Basketball)

On the audio side of things I had a Alesis HD24s that we fed the individual audio channels *using a splitter with a dedicated mixer just for video (we had a converted RV that served as an op truck so the audio mix for video was done outside of the venue) we recorded the individual tracks, a video audio board mix and two "room mics"

In stead of trying to sync all of this together with SMPTE (we started there) we simply recorded as I said above the audio for the video to the DVD's and then same mix to the HD24 this allowed us to to an alignment in the NLE editor if we needed to. and provided continuous audio that was the same on both systems.


It all worked amazingly well. It was not NBC olympics but all the concepts and a lot of the practices were there. At sporting events we could fly in player stats, bring in the score etc, do instand replay, and we even had a hand drawing over video overlay ala "madden football"

It was all done for about 25 grand.

If you want to move to HD then you are looking at about 10 times that so 200-250 grand

Sharyn

 

[museav]

I hate to keep harping on the same point but the Panasonic article notes their using P2 format camcorders, a combination camera and recorder. A camera has no recording functionality, it simply outputs video, while a camcorder has an integrated recorder, although it may also be able to output live video. Camcorders could be one way of achieving what you want with each camera recording as well as providing a live feed. But if you want to make post-production easier that probably means also having a master time code generator and feeding sync and LTC to each camera so that you can line them up in post-production. It also means that part of the editing system would be some way to play back the recording media used.

If you want to be able to do 720p or 1080i HD using HD-SDI and handle higher resolution graphics, that is possible but is a step up in budget. 1080p HD is yet another fairly big step up in cost. In any case there are also a number of less obvious costs involved for things like a master sync generator, monitors, various DAs, pan/tilts and controls, perhaps a WFM/VScope and so on. So the big question before getting into specifics is what is the budget?

Also consider that recording, production and distribution equate to additional rights being required. Maybe that has already been addressed but it chould be noted.

 

[crimsonwombat]

Thank you all for the great tips and suggestions. This is exactly what I needed to refine my requirements and get started spec'ing this out.

The points about live mix versus trying to record each camera are well taken. I was already beginning to tremble at the thought of the amount of storage I would need for all this. It is true that the original thinking was more along the lines of planning the live mix during the wet tech of the various shows and then capturing that live mix (yes ... the projector input is meant to be capturing the input being sent to the projector).

As for our budget ... that's actually rather flexible. This initiative is a reawakening of an original design concept as a result of a recent strategic planning retreat. The original concept was 'value engineered' out as a result of some unexpected budget hits during construction and now, not 12 months later, it is back on the table (all very typical short-sighted project management ... if I had a buck for everytime I've been through this ...) Given the priority assigned to the capability at the retreat it is possible that very significant resources could be available for this system. We have been expecting this to be in the $70K to $100K range so it sounds like we may actually be right between the realistic price points. If we have a credible design however it is not impossible that something in the $200K range could be allocated.

Staffing the booth is actually going to be the real hurdle.

This was all a great help. I'll probably be back as I get deeper in but I have some reading and learning to do first.

As a little more background on our existing configuration: we have a Mackie TT24 digital board with a 32 channel digital snake and FOH box and 24 channels of analog input available in the booth for a total of 64 possible channels (but this is a bit of snake oil making the best of a non-optimal downgrade). We frequently run our musicals with 20+ body mics, 4 PZM mics on stage, two omnis in the pit two overhead choir omnis and other assorted audio inputs as necessary. The board feeds a recent vintage iMac via lightpipe. We also use Qlab to integrate and control the light and sound cues. Originally the board was going to be a Digidesign Venue and I have hopes to upgrade to that at some point but that fell victim to the same value engineering exercise as the video capture system. You can see how, in a show which easily requires 30 to 40 channels, the TT24 is being pushed to the limits. We also have a MacServe dedicated to the booth as a media streaming server using QTSS an QTBS for multicast broadcasting.