Placing Gel in lights

[mstaylor]

There is a thread about how to mark gels which made me think of this questions. When putting gels in lighting instruments I have always put the open end up to the top of the instrument. Never really gave it a thought until I worked with one company that insisted that you should always put the open end down and you were an idiot if you didn't. In the greater scheme of things I don't see it makes a lot of difference but curious if it has been taught one way or the other.
My thought was it may have come from rock and roll and trusses with PARs. I also have worked with another company that insisted on not using the retainer clips on his PARs.

 

[gafftapegreenia]

I always place the opening up, otherwise, the force of gravity works to ones disadvantage. Fluttering gels are distracting during a run.

 

[Grog12]

I assuem you mean the open end of the frame. Generally I put the open end facing up. The only exception to this is my booms where I don't have enough frames to frame all of my gel for changes, so I put the empty frame in the front slot upside down and put the gel in behind it.

 

[Lotos]

Gels around here live in the 'safe' fibreboard frames... Stapled into place in the corners with an industrial stapler. So position really is unimportant.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

Both shops I have worked in for rock and roll are frame opening down. This logic comes from the old pars that only have 3 clips to hold the frame in. You wouldn't want your open side on the side with out the clip because it would be much easier for the wind to steal the gel from the light.

 

[Les]

I like the open end up. If I'm removing gels from instruments in a FOH catwalk where the fixtures are hung from the lowest rail, I want to be able to open the clip and pull the gel frame out by grabbing one of the top corners --- without worrying about my gel slipping out.

Mind you, I almost never retain my gels in their frames using brads, etc.

This also makes it easier when striking gel from the lights. Just pop open the clip and yank the gel out without removing the frame (if you prefer to keep your frames in ungelled lights).

 

[Footer]

If its not going out on the road or in the air outside... whatever gets it done faster and me home quicker at the end of the night.

 

[SteveB]

And as an oddity.

We use a lot of Source 4 zooms as well as Pars and ParNels. EVERY one of these fixtures is tough on color, thus we have 3" color frame extenders (City Theatrical version) on the units (124 units). Every extender is safetied in some manner to the unit, so the color has to go into the extender.

As I've mentioned in the pole posts, I also use Safety Frame Mainframe paper color frames on all the ellipsoidals in 6.25" and 7.5" sizes.

During the spring, summer and into the fall, when our air conditioning system is operational, we experience a "swelling" of the paper frames on the left/right sides - I.E. the frames seemingly absorb moisture and are slightly wider, but only on the side to side and the not the height (folded side down).

Thus when I'm putting color in the zooms that have the extenders, every frame will fit if inserted sideways, but not with the folded edge down.

Then sometime around mid October, when the geese are flying and the leaves are a changing, Brooklyn Center stagehands can once again insert the color frame so that the color number is readable and not 90 degrees.

And NO, I'm not changing my work methods to account for this ! (I can hear the "Smart Ass Comment" wheels turning in Dereks brain !).

 

[mstaylor]

Both shops I have worked in for rock and roll are frame opening down. This logic comes from the old pars that only have 3 clips to hold the frame in. You wouldn't want your open side on the side with out the clip because it would be much easier for the wind to steal the gel from the light.

That was what I assumed about the old PARs with three clips. I explained to the guys I was working with that was giving me grief that open end down came from old R&R and open end up is theatre. The funny thing is neither of them were old enough to know about three clip PARs.

 

[derekleffew]

...The funny thing is neither of them were old enough to know about three clip PARs.

I'm not sure I'm old enough to know about "three clip" PARs. I don't recall ever seeing an Altman par can that didn't have the fourth spring clip (unless it was broken). Some of the spun aluminum cans don't use a fourth clip, but instead have spring steel pieces in the side clips, PITA those. Another manufacturer had a hole in the bottom clip that aligned with a hole in the octagonal colorframe so that a brad could be inserted through both.

While I could maybe see "fold up" for a tour; for all other purposes, why fight with inserting the frame?

 

[SteveB]

I'm not sure I'm old enough to know about "three clip" PARs. I don't recall ever seeing an Altman par can that didn't have the fourth spring clip (unless it was broken). Some of the spun aluminum cans don't use a fourth clip, but instead have spring steel pieces in the side clips, PITA those. Another manufacturer had a hole in the bottom clip that aligned with a hole in the octagonal colorframe so that a brad could be inserted through both.

While I could maybe see "fold up" for a tour; for all other purposes, why fight with inserting the frame?

Older polished Alu Thomas Pars that came as 6 units hard wired to round alu stock, didn't have spring clips. The Thomas color frames were polished as well.

 

[church]

I'm not sure I'm old enough to know about "three clip" PARs. I don't recall ever seeing an Altman par can that didn't have the fourth spring clip (unless it was broken). Some of the spun aluminum cans don't use a fourth clip, but instead have spring steel pieces in the side clips, PITA those. Another manufacturer had a hole in the bottom clip that aligned with a hole in the octagonal colorframe so that a brad could be inserted through both.

While I could maybe see "fold up" for a tour; for all other purposes, why fight with inserting the frame?

I agree about the spring clips on older "three clip" PARs, all but impossible to get a fibreboard frame into these without mangleing the frame. I resortde to removing the clips and retrofitting a fourth spring clip - on mine it was less frustrating than the alternative. Otherwise the only other PAR can I remember with only three clips was some steel Strand PAR 64s.

 

[techno89]

Usually facing up but really I just do it whichever **** way I happen to be holding it.

 

[mstaylor]

I was really curious if there was a preference, I prefer open end up but it doesn't matter, however I didn't appreciate being told I was wrong and an idiot for doing it my way. I started with lekos and fresnels that burned horizotal to vertical so it never mattered.

 

[BillESC]

My first cans were the altman one with only 3 sides for the frame. It most certainly was a PITA.

 

[JD]

Yea, three was pretty standard back in the 70s. The frames have two holes near the open end, which you were suppose to use by putting those brass paper fasteners in to secure the gel. Gel frame were open-end-up in those days. Chicken wire in the frames was also common to keep melted gels from plopping out. (Also, pars back then did not have safety screens.) For some reason, I remember frames fitting a lot tighter back then....

Hey, we should do a poll:
What percentage of gel frames did you see with the fasteners in place?

A) .001%

B) .0001%

C) 0%

 

[Tweedle]

I just remove the lens train and shove the gels (heat shield first, of course! ) into the reflector housing. The "gel frame holders" on the front are for looks only and are not meant to be used practically. The only way to ensure the gel stay in the light is to... put it IN the light. Of course, you cause a fire and burn up your gel in a microsecond, BUT it wont fly away!



Disclaimer: Don't ever do that...

 

[Les]

I was really curious if there was a preference, I prefer open end up but it doesn't matter, however I didn't appreciate being told I was wrong and an idiot for doing it my way. I started with lekos and fresnels that burned horizotal to vertical so it never mattered.

I certainly agree with you here. I personally see no direct benefit in placing the open end down in an indoor theatre; in fact, I feel like it would be more of a hassle. I'm sure that there are certain situations where an exception would be made, but in most cases, open end up is right for me. Especially in a catwalk where you access your lights from above.

FWIW, any manufacturer photo I have seen has the open end up (in the rare event that they photograph the instrument with a gel frame installed).

 

[mstaylor]

The other part of the question that nobody ever addressed is the one company that never hooks the spring clip on PARs. Most of the time we are outdoors when this happens.