Question for TDs of high schools or high school crew members...
- Thread starterNHStech
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Generally, we get paid under the table because for them to pay us through the district, we have to be fingerprinted and processed as employees of the district which usually costs more than they're paying us, so they can either pay under the table or have no technicians. Most people are fine with it. I'm not sure if they just slip it by the book keeper or if we get paid out of their own pockets, but we get paid. Even when we are registered with the district, we don't need work permits. Apparently we used to get paid $20/hour, but people started to complain (rightly so, but it would still be nice to make that as a high school technician) so now we get minimum wage which is around $7/hour.
I know a couple theatres in Wisconsin that went that route only to have the state mandate they start treating people as employees. You cannot call them independent contractors for several reasons. To name a couple big ones:
+ they are managed by someone else who tells them what to do, how to do it, and when to do it. Who controls the "how" and "when" are crucial for classifying someone as an employee or as an independent contractor. Whether or not they are actually managed by someone else does not matter -- the metric used by the IRS is who has the rights to mandate the means and time-frame (i.e. the school district)
+ presumably they do not provide their own tools and equipment, and even if they do, someone else has the right to dictate to them which tools and equipment are used to perform the tasks, and in which order/pattern those tasks are completed in.
Tex
Active Member
Just to be clear, this is how my district has chosen to handle these student workers. I have no say in the matter, except who gets to work. If they're doing something that's not kosher with the IRS, the district legal team can deal with it. I'm sure they were consulted before this decision was made.
Sayen
Active Member
Please be very careful doing this or talking about this - you/your district is most likely breaking the law. Besides the legalities of paying employees I would be worried about liability. What happens if someone is injured, or gear is broken/stolen? Sexual harassment from a client or student? The district has insurance and lawyers to help with this sort of thing. I know your situation is very common, and it was the case at my school when I was hired, but it's incredibly risky (and probably illegal). For what it's worth, my techs are paid $12 an hour now that it's official, which beats minimum.
I understand but there is virtually no way that students could meet the IRS definition of an independent contractor. And beyond the potential employment and tax issues, treating students as independent contractors seems fraught with other potential problems. If one of the 'independent contractors' drops a light onto the stage, destroying the fixture and damaging the stage, what happens? The school's insurance will probably not cover it because it was the direct result of an action by an independent contractor rather than a student or employee. And the individual probably has no coverage that would pay for it. Now extend that to a similar situation but someone being injured. That approach seems to put both the school and students at potential risk.
I am not an administrator or attorney so I am really looking at this as more of an outsider (and taxpayer) looking in, but on that basis I have to say that throughout this discussion I keep wondering about the fact that "student", "volunteer" and "employee/independent contractor" seem to define very different relationships. Perhaps it is oversimplifying it but one seems to function as either a student, a volunteer or a professional, but only as one at a time. There seems to be situations where the roles and relationships are not clearly defined or established and so what is most interesting to me is how schools determine whether the role is that of student, volunteer or professional and how that resulting relationship is then reflected and maintained.
If you start paying "students" that seems to go somewhere no schools, or at least no public schools, would want to go. It has been many years since I was in high school but several of our choirs and bands performed on behalf of the school at outside events and I don't believe they were paid for that. Art students provided work for promotions and events without compensation. Athletes competed without compensation even if the school financially or otherwise profited from it. Those activities were considered either part of your education with the learning and experience gained being the associated compensation or they were a volunteer effort, neither of which involve financial compensation.
So any financial compensation seems to imply an "employee" or "contractor" relationship. And in that case wouldn't the same processes, practices and requirements applied to any other professional relationships also apply? As an example, bidders on public contracts typically have to be registered with the related agencies, be a licensed business, have a tax ID, have certain required insurance coverage, etc. and often any contracted publicly funded work has to go through specific processes to be awarded. If your school hires students as "independent contractors" then it would seem they would have to meet the same requirements and go through the same processes. An employee realtionship may avoid many such issues, but while it may be perfectly acceptable and appropriate to require certain qualifications for professionals you hire or contract that relate to their ability to perform the work, is their being in or having been in specific classes or certain clubs a legitimate and permissible employment qualification or could it be interpreted as discriminatory if it is not directly relevant to the work and position?
Another aspect to this seems to be that of whether during outside events the renters or attendees are perceived as interacting with students, volunteers or professionals. There are two sides to this. One is the legal aspects, for example in relation to any direct interaction. That may seem like a minor issue but could actually be a significant one. For example, if any adults on campus interacting with students must first be vetted then would that possibly appply? The other aspect is what expectations the outside party should have. I'll be blunt and say that if I were to come into a venue and be required to pay for technicians they provide, either directly or through the rental cost, then I would expect those individuals to be qualified and able to do their job. If they are there to learn that is great, but that goes back to their then seeming to be functioning as students rather than professonals.
Just to be clear, I am not suggesting that students should not be able to function in positions such as support and tech staff for the school venues and be paid when that is a professional relationship. I am interested in how schools define and maintain the seemingly different roles of student, volunteer and professional, especially when working with outside parties.
Where I work (also where I went to high school), the overhire staff were considered district employees in that they could drive district vehicles if they were 18 or older and that taxes were deducted from their paychecks. They also had to take tuberculosis tests before their first paychecks could be released to each of them.
Students could be on the overhire staff as well as adults, but at different pay rates. (Hourly that was $10 for students and $20 for adults, but I think those numbers have since been revised since they realized that's a lot of money to be paying students who had just graduated and were bumped to the $20 pay level).
I'm considered a part-time employee by the district, as I was when I was a student there. There are fuzzy lines between how much of an employee I've always been though -- like when the school provides sexual harassment training or anything like that, nobody comes knocking on my door telling me I have to attend. I did have to attend aerial work platforms training to operate scissor lifts though -- a requirement from the district's insurance company.
As a part-time employee, it was understood I could represent the facility to third parties when I had explicitly been told to. Generally what would happen is as soon as an event would hit he advancing phase, I'd be in charge of looking at riders, preparing setups, and coordinating sound checks, light focusing, and such with the client and with my boss (who stayed as blind as possible to the technical elements).
We hire students for events when we can, adults when we must. Some students are trusted to represent the facilities to outside parties, others are grunt labor. Usually everyone has a good understanding of what they are or are not responsible for. If a client walks up to them and asks them about scheduling that week, they'll defer to the bossman, but if it's a question on how to get to the dressing rooms or someone wants to know when they can start their dance rehearsal on stage, they'll handle it on their own. At all times there is an adult present who can be the ultimate yea/nay on a matter, but how closely that person is supervising (if they're on stage at all times or if they stay mostly in their office in the lobby) depends on how capable the students are who are on staff that day.
Students could be on the overhire staff as well as adults, but at different pay rates. (Hourly that was $10 for students and $20 for adults, but I think those numbers have since been revised since they realized that's a lot of money to be paying students who had just graduated and were bumped to the $20 pay level).
I'm considered a part-time employee by the district, as I was when I was a student there. There are fuzzy lines between how much of an employee I've always been though -- like when the school provides sexual harassment training or anything like that, nobody comes knocking on my door telling me I have to attend. I did have to attend aerial work platforms training to operate scissor lifts though -- a requirement from the district's insurance company.
As a part-time employee, it was understood I could represent the facility to third parties when I had explicitly been told to. Generally what would happen is as soon as an event would hit he advancing phase, I'd be in charge of looking at riders, preparing setups, and coordinating sound checks, light focusing, and such with the client and with my boss (who stayed as blind as possible to the technical elements).
We hire students for events when we can, adults when we must. Some students are trusted to represent the facilities to outside parties, others are grunt labor. Usually everyone has a good understanding of what they are or are not responsible for. If a client walks up to them and asks them about scheduling that week, they'll defer to the bossman, but if it's a question on how to get to the dressing rooms or someone wants to know when they can start their dance rehearsal on stage, they'll handle it on their own. At all times there is an adult present who can be the ultimate yea/nay on a matter, but how closely that person is supervising (if they're on stage at all times or if they stay mostly in their office in the lobby) depends on how capable the students are who are on staff that day.
A lot of this also depends on the size of the community. Where I went to HS, the town and surrounding towns together only had a population of about 45,000. My HS stage was the largest theater in the area, there were no community stages. We had a single convention center which had city staff, but the town in general did not have theater employees outside of the high schools and college. When events did come to town, it was always a scramble to find people who could do the work since it was about a four hour drive, over mountain passes, to the nearest city with professionals. That community has over doubled in size over the past couple of decades since I left and I'm sure that it would not be the same today.
So, while some schools may have need to hire students to run special events, I do think that there is a better way than paying under the table or attempting to use the independent contractor route. As with safety, it comes with prior planning, often which the administration fails to put the effort into. If you are a student reading this thread, take it to heart that we are not trying to make you lose work/pay, but hoping that you will be protected. If you are an administrator/teacher, I hope that you take another look at how things are done and if it makes sense to continue this way. It's not just students who need to learn to question how/why things are done the way they are done. That's a life lesson.
So, while some schools may have need to hire students to run special events, I do think that there is a better way than paying under the table or attempting to use the independent contractor route. As with safety, it comes with prior planning, often which the administration fails to put the effort into. If you are a student reading this thread, take it to heart that we are not trying to make you lose work/pay, but hoping that you will be protected. If you are an administrator/teacher, I hope that you take another look at how things are done and if it makes sense to continue this way. It's not just students who need to learn to question how/why things are done the way they are done. That's a life lesson.
I am the only student who helps with the outside groups, its usually me and the district multimedia support guy, who is a good friend of mine. The drama club tech crew could care less about any events in the space, including the district events and concerts.
Usually we will handle the technical elements, and the groups will provide their own crew, spot ops ect. Im not paid by the district in any way, but often the groups will pay me a decent amount under the table. I don't really treat working events as a paid gig, more just a chance to practice lighting and sound design and get my name out for real opportunities.
I receive nothing for school sponsored events and concerts, although I often have a rental budget to play with, which for me is even better than cash.
Usually we will handle the technical elements, and the groups will provide their own crew, spot ops ect. Im not paid by the district in any way, but often the groups will pay me a decent amount under the table. I don't really treat working events as a paid gig, more just a chance to practice lighting and sound design and get my name out for real opportunities.
I receive nothing for school sponsored events and concerts, although I often have a rental budget to play with, which for me is even better than cash.
