Question for TDs of high schools or high school crew members...

[NHStech]

1) When you do outside shows (i.e., not your choir, band, etc) that pay to rent your venue, does your student stage crew get paid?
2) If so, how much?
3) If you do pay, how do you relate it (if at all) to federal or state minimum wage laws?
4) Do they have to have work permits?
5) Any other pertinent info about such a situation.
The reason I ask is because our school has a tradition of paying students for such events, but the pay has been the same for the last 30 years (literally). I have been TD for 5 and wish to bring us into the 21st century. I want to make sure that a) I have the option of paying or not, and b) if I do continue to pay, that I am not going to get massively caught up in bureacracy and this law and that, c) but at the same time, I do not want to break laws.
If you are a high school crew member, and you know answers to these questions, feel free to chime in.

 

[erosing]

1) When you do outside shows (i.e., not your choir, band, etc) that pay to rent your venue, does your student stage crew get paid?
2) If so, how much?
3) If you do pay, how do you relate it (if at all) to federal or state minimum wage laws?
4) Do they have to have work permits?
5) Any other pertinent info about such a situation.
The reason I ask is because our school has a tradition of paying students for such events, but the pay has been the same for the last 30 years (literally). I have been TD for 5 and wish to bring us into the 21st century. I want to make sure that a) I have the option of paying or not, and b) if I do continue to pay, that I am not going to get massively caught up in bureacracy and this law and that, c) but at the same time, I do not want to break laws.
If you are a high school crew member, and you know answers to these questions, feel free to chime in.

I can answer from what my high school's policy was about 5 years ago and before that.

Yes, students were always paid, if I remember correctly it was $8-$10 per hour, depending on the rental.

Yes, work permits were required.

Other notes, it was on average 4-5 rentals per year until my senior year which had significantly less, most of the time they were in April-June, but there were a few exceptions. All rentals from outside groups paid students, "sponsored" school events/fundraisers were not paid, they were volunteer based, and ha no effect on anything, as in working them didn't officially put you higher on a list to work rentals. Also, any students working outside events had to be in good academic standing, and were technically treated the same as extra-curricular activities (out sick - can't work tonight, for example).

Last I heard, the policies have not changed much, but I believe they get paid a little more now.

 

[NHSTechCrew]

1) When you do outside shows (i.e., not your choir,
band, etc) that pay to rent your venue, does your student stage crew get
paid?
2) If so, how much?
3) If you do pay, how do you relate it (if at all) to federal or state minimum wage laws?
4) Do they have to have work permits?
5) Any other pertinent info about such a situation.The reason I ask is because our school has a tradition of paying students for such events, but the pay has been the same for the last 30 years (literally). I have been TD for 5 and wish to bring us into the 21st century. I want to make sure that a) I have the option of paying or not, and b) if I do continue to pay, that I am not going to get massively caught up in bureacracy and this law and
that, c) but at the same time, I do not want to break laws. If you are a high school crew member, and you know answers to these
questions, feel free to chime in.

1)Yes if the event is not schooled sponsored or the school is getting paid then they are required to have at least 1 student and administrator.
2)I get paid 9 dollars an hour
3) unknown
4)I believe not
5)Our school has a calendar that students can sign up on. It is true that the more experience you are the longer hour jobs and harder jobs fall in your lap.


-Patrick

 

[chausman]

1) When you do outside shows (i.e., not your choir, band, etc) that pay to rent your venue, does your student stage crew get paid? Yes
2) If so, how much? $10 per hour
3) If you do pay, how do you relate it (if at all) to federal or state minimum wage laws? This does comply with Washington L&I laws (For the most part)
4) Do they have to have work permits? I don't believe so
5) Any other pertinent info about such a situation. Outside Shows (which for us means outside the district) that would require the theater would pay student techs, an administrator to supervise the student techs, and a custodian to be on site throughout the event. Pay includes setup/teardown for their event.

 

[cpf]

1) When you do outside shows (i.e., not your choir, band, etc) that pay to rent your venue, does your student stage crew get paid?
2) If so, how much?
3) If you do pay, how do you relate it (if at all) to federal or state minimum wage laws?
4) Do they have to have work permits?
5) Any other pertinent info about such a situation.
The reason I ask is because our school has a tradition of paying students for such events, but the pay has been the same for the last 30 years (literally). I have been TD for 5 and wish to bring us into the 21st century. I want to make sure that a) I have the option of paying or not, and b) if I do continue to pay, that I am not going to get massively caught up in bureacracy and this law and that, c) but at the same time, I do not want to break laws.
If you are a high school crew member, and you know answers to these questions, feel free to chime in.

1) Yes
2) I think the going rate is $12/hr, not entirely sure, I'm not involved in that area
3) It's around $3-$4 over the minimum wage (in Alberta)
4) I'm not in a position to answer this
5) I think students actually get paid for school events too, but that might be because there was a shortage of technicians at the get-go so some extra incentive was required.

 

[MNicolai]

1) Yes.
2) $10/hr
3) It's a few dollars above minimum wage.
4) Yes, which the school issues to them after they fill out a form (and take a TB test).
5) We hire students to work what they are capable of working, but otherwise those duties are taken to professional overhires, who make $20/hr. We try to avoid it, but there have been situations where the arts center manager has coordinated with the high school principal to excuse students from classes for work in the arts center, usually for matinees being performed by touring groups for students from other schools in the district.

 

[emac]

Well I personally do not get payed by my school. Mostly because we don't really have a theater that anybody aside from us uses.

That being said I know that at least one other school does pay their techs when working outside shows.

 

[jglodeklights]

The high school I work with has no need to hire students as they do not rent out their space, currently, and it is also, currently, in construction.

That said, based on my experiences in the retail world and a little research-
1. Student stage crews should be paid unless students are receiving credit for a class (my opinion).
2/3. Federal regulations require minimum of $7.25 an hour for FLSA protected jobs, which this type of employment would typically fall under as they are being paid by an enterprise. Should a state have a higher minimum wage, that is what must be adhered to.
4. Work permit regulations vary by state; they are not federally mandated.
5. 14 and 15 year olds may only work within the hours of 7 am to 7pm, except between June 1 and Labor day when they may work until 9pm. School days they may only work 3 hours, and non school days 8 hours. 18 hours in a school week maximum, 40 in a non school week. Once they reach 16 or older they may work anytime for any number of hours. These are the FEDERAL laws. State laws may be more strict, in which case the stricter law takes effect.

 

[TheGuruat12]

1) When you do outside shows (i.e., not your choir, band, etc) that pay to rent your venue, does your student stage crew get paid? Yes
2) If so, how much? We don't know yet, but between $7.25 (Arizona minimum) and $12 is my guess.
3) If you do pay, how do you relate it (if at all) to federal or state minimum wage laws? Minimum wage is minimum.
4) Do they have to have work permits? No.
5) Any other pertinent info about such a situation. We are employees of our school district; the district adds our total pay for the hours onto the rental contract and then sends us each a paycheck.

 

[chausman]

5. 14 and 15 year olds may only work within the hours of 7 am to 7pm, except between June 1 and Labor day when they may work until 9pm. School days they may only work 3 hours, and non school days 8 hours. 18 hours in a school week maximum, 40 in a non school week. Once they reach 16 or older they may work anytime for any number of hours. These are the FEDERAL laws. State laws may be more strict, in which case the stricter law takes effect.

Oh, do I hate some of those...
In Washington, I (being 14 (soon 15)) can workuntil 9pm in the summer, 7pm any other time. 3 hours a day for school days, 8 for other days, maximum of 16 hours a week. I am not allowed to work past 8 unless someone over 18 is present (not an issue currently) or be over 10 feet off the ground or floor level or using a ladder. This one bugs me, because that seems to exclude a large area of a theater. Oh, and using electric winches us prohibited.

One thing I can do however, is volunteer after 9pm/7pm depending on time of year and then the laws don't apply. So, I just have to clock out at 9 and then we are still legal. (As far as I know)

EDIT: (again, in Washington State) Unless we make $9,000 a year, we are tax exempt.

 

[CSCTech]

We do not do very many outside events, however when we do, the person there does not get paid, officially.

Now before I explain this I'd like to say that in the last year we have been re-working how things are done and who's allowed to do what, etc. Also this is the first year there has ever been anyone officially in charge of the school's theatre. Since then, a new contract for renting the space has supposedly been in the making. So this all may change with this new season coming up.

When an outside group rents our space they pay for a custodian and minimal fee for the space. Not a dime is shown to tech.

When I say crew, I refer to basically me, or one of two official 'Crew'. Basically how it works is that there are three students who have been professionally trained on all systems and are the primary 'Tech Crew' for all happenings in the theatre. A Stage Crew is assembled on a show to show basis, after that crew is selected from directors or what not, the official crew teaches them what they need to know and assists where needed. One of the members of this official crew is in charge of the rest of the stage crew, and the other two are lighting and sound.

I do not technically have to be at any outside events, because the school does not pay me to be there and there is not agreement saying the use of lighting and sound is provided. All lighting and sound equipment is locked up.

However..I know that if I do not attend these events, there will be things damaged and I would also just hate to see a show not go as planned because the group didn't get something they might of been expecting. Plus, I do it for fun and experience anyway.

The groups who come in are the same almost every year and they all are aware we don't get paid to be there so they all do pay a fair amount for our services and assistance so it works out in the end, however having a more official way of doing things would be greatly appreciated and is in the works.


After having some discussions with the faculty member responsible for making this new contract I believe it was decided, based upon the length/rehearsal time needed/run time of the groups who come in, that it would be $100 flat rate for use of the lighting system plus an operator. $100 flat rate for use of the sound system and operator. And $50 flat rate for follow spot operator (comes with lighting but not with an operator, a separate FS op would be needed depending on the complexity of it, more often then not, the board op can handle it.

 

[museav]

As TheGuruat12 noted, paying students likely makes them employees and that likely introduces other potential implications for both the school and student. The reality is that the total cost for an employee is much more than their pay and may vary in ways that pay would not, for example two people working a certain number of hours may cost much more than a single person working twice as many hours even though the pay is the same.

As others have noted, while it may be good to get some insight on what others do, you really need to get someone conversant with the state and local labor laws. For example, I see several references to the FLSA minimum wage requirements, however it appears that according to FLSA workers under age 20 may be paid as little as $4.25/hour for the first 90 days of work while 'student learners' may be paid 75% of minimum wage, while as noted, state labor laws may prohibit such exceptions to minimum wage laws.

In addition to the type of limitations on the work that can be performed that may be part of the applicable labor laws, requirements by your insurer may also limit the work those under certain ages may perform even if allowed by law.

 

[PatrickAngle]

I'm a member of my High School's student staff.

1. We are paid for all non-production shows. Essentially if the show is not a production of our Drama department, we get paid. So, while we won't be paid for our upcoming production of "Rough Magic", we will be paid for all of the Band concerts, dance recitals, and choir concerts in the upcoming year.

2. We are paid $7.25 an hour, state minimum wage.

3. See 2.

4. Yes. The student never have to deal with it because in Indiana the school must issue the work permit, so our school corporation takes care of all of that for us.

5. Our student staff member are essentially on pay role as custodians, so our corporation does not require a normal custodian to be present. It is also of note that our school corporation has, in the past, paid for hospital visits for work related injury (We own 28 year old sound shells that have sent at least four people to the hospital with possible head injury.)

We typically have to file taxes, as our auditorium is typically booked over 50% of the time most of the year. We also clean every day over the summer, so it is not uncommon for us to make upwards of 8,000 dollars a year.

 

[z2oo]

1) When you do outside shows (i.e., not your choir, band, etc) that pay to rent your venue, does your student stage crew get paid?
YES, only if they are on the paid crew roster
2) If so, how much?
$9 as a Freshman up to $12 as a Senior
3) If you do pay, how do you relate it (if at all) to federal or state minimum wage laws?
We use the same system as teachers, and minimum wage is observed
4) Do they have to have work permits?
Anyone under age 16 does
5) Any other pertinent info about such a situation.
Same payment/check system as teachers, so taxes and minimum wage is observed. If someone joins paid crew after Freshman year they start at $9 and can work their way up.

 

[Sayen]

I'm fortunate enough to have control over my theater. I schedule rentals, required production meetings with them, and require they hire myself and a student crew. Any non-school event is paid, which includes most district events such as meetings.

Students are paid $10/hour, which is not high but fair enough for their age and a temporary job. The students run everything while I act as a production manager, and rentals are informed that while I will supply a top of the line crew this is still an educational experience. Students have to be district employees, paid hourly, so they have tax deductions from their pay handled like any other employee.

We used to pay them under the table, where the rental would bring an envelope of money and just pass it out. The good part was less paperwork and the kids almost always got paid extra. It's not so much on the legal side, so I had that changed when I was hired on.

 

[Tex]

I'm fortunate enough to have control over my theater. I schedule rentals, required production meetings with them, and require they hire myself and a student crew. Any non-school event is paid, which includes most district events such as meetings.

Students are paid $10/hour, which is not high but fair enough for their age and a temporary job. The students run everything while I act as a production manager, and rentals are informed that while I will supply a top of the line crew this is still an educational experience. Students have to be district employees, paid hourly, so they have tax deductions from their pay handled like any other employee.

We used to pay them under the table, where the rental would bring an envelope of money and just pass it out. The good part was less paperwork and the kids almost always got paid extra. It's not so much on the legal side, so I had that changed when I was hired on.

It's the same for me, except my kids get $12/hr.

 

[LXPlot]

1) When you do outside shows (i.e., not your choir, band, etc) that pay to rent your venue, does your student stage crew get paid? Not usually, but there have been times.
2) If so, how much? Last time it was 30$ for a full length production...but a lot of people who worked it didn't get paid and a lot who didn't do much did.
3) If you do pay, how do you relate it (if at all) to federal or state minimum wage laws? It was pretty disorganized and under the table. A lot of us would've done it for free, or did.
4) Do they have to have work permits? If they're under 16 they should. But the school ignored that.
5) Any other pertinent info about such a situation. Usually, it would be me running something for free, working with a staff member whose job is partially to do that. But in some cases there is something that the school sponsors and ends up paying us. My workplace is a city owned roadhouse less than a block from school, where we do need permits and do make 7.25$ (minimum wage) minus tax. The only reason things get sent to my school is 1) the auditorium is three times as large and 2) they don't have any system that would require them to pay us.

 

[Sayen]

Now, here's a question - is anyone out there paying their students to work choir/band/dance/etc? Thoughts on the issue? We're so busy with our own growing theater activities, and these represent in some cases a very significant interruption with significant demands, that I go back and forth on this all the time. Those groups already have to pay security and custodial, so adding a paid crew member or two is not a significant expense.

 

[cpf]

Now, here's a question - is anyone out there paying their students to work choir/band/dance/etc? Thoughts on the issue? We're so busy with our own growing theater activities, and these represent in some cases a very significant interruption with significant demands, that I go back and forth on this all the time. Those groups already have to pay security and custodial, so adding a paid crew member or two is not a significant expense.

We actually had quite a mini-scandal over this with a band concert (background: rural small-town school in question is only about 5-600 students last time I asked). The band concert is theoretically a fundraiser (donations, selling water & baked items at intermission, plus DVD sales), but unforeseen by the concert organizers was that they would be charged, by the school, for two student technicians to work the evening. Now, at $12/hour, the visions of dollar signs (albeit small ones) in the organizer's eyes quickly vanished. I'm not sure what the resolution or decision was in that case, but I think there is now a written copy of what had been an unwritten rule that school programs can use the theatre facility at no charge, no matter who's getting paid what.

As for the question of when students get paid, I asked the powers that be about this after my last post, and the answer was that the pay/no pay decision was based on the complexity and prominence of the event, with external (e.g. the alliance that runs the theatre is getting paid for the rental) the events always meriting the $12/hour rate. Examples of this decision in my experience have been that drama productions (many long nights, lots of responsibility) are paid, while assemblies and speakers (one-off, still lots of responsibility) aren't.

 

[express]

1) When you do outside shows (i.e., not your choir, band, etc) that pay to rent your venue, does your student stage crew get paid? Yes
2) If so, how much? $25 per hour
4) Do they have to have work permits? Yes
5) Any other pertinent info about such a situation. Outside shows have to pay the $25 an hour tech fee for every hour that they are in the space, as a tech always has to be there. To be able to get into out PAC, they have to checkin with the maintenance staff, and then check out again, which is how our pay is calculated. Shows from within the school (Choir, band) we get paid $20 and hour, paid by the school. This is just a time sheet signed by the teach in charge of the group thats using the space. My school also has 2 separate theaters, thus, two events can be happening at the same time.