Sound system basics - what should be provided?

[JLNorthGA]

Arguing over what should be provided by us at our board meeting. What should a small house be reasonably expected to provide for rentals and musical acts?

Currently we have a PA system with a mixer, compressors/limiters, DriveRack PA+, several amplifiers, six speakers (two FOH, two fill, two acting as subwoofers), two monitor amplifiers with four channels total, monitor speakers, microphone stands, SM58 vocal microphones, SM57 instrument microphones, DI boxes, adapters and cables. We also have two ribbon snakes to connect to our larger house snakes on stage left and stage right.

You can't really rent stuff in our area - so we have enough for most of the local musical acts.

We have had requests for wireless microphones - but I'd rather not spend that much money - we don't really have it to spare. Are wireless microphones considered a normal item to provide for renters and visiting artists?
Should we fly some microphones for choral acts and musical theatre? Our house is small and most trained singers (and many untrained ones) can easily fill the house with enough sound.

We're in line to get a grant for our sound system - to replace what we've been renting and upgrade a little bit. I don't want to have any more arguing.

 

[TJCornish]

Arguing over what should be provided by us at our board meeting. What should a small house be reasonably expected to provide for rentals and musical acts?

Currently we have a PA system with a mixer, compressors/limiters, DriveRack PA+, several amplifiers, six speakers (two FOH, two fill, two acting as subwoofers), two monitor amplifiers with four channels total, monitor speakers, microphone stands, SM58 vocal microphones, SM57 instrument microphones, DI boxes, adapters and cables. We also have two ribbon snakes to connect to our larger house snakes on stage left and stage right.

You can't really rent stuff in our area - so we have enough for most of the local musical acts.

We have had requests for wireless microphones - but I'd rather not spend that much money - we don't really have it to spare. Are wireless microphones considered a normal item to provide for renters and visiting artists?
Should we fly some microphones for choral acts and musical theatre? Our house is small and most trained singers (and many untrained ones) can easily fill the house with enough sound.

We're in line to get a grant for our sound system - to replace what we've been renting and upgrade a little bit. I don't want to have any more arguing.

How long is a piece of string?

I would look to spend money on things your paying clients deem inadequate. If that's wireless mics - so be it. If your system isn't loud enough, doesn't sound good enough, sound board is inadequate, etc., then go for those things first.

If the room is as small as you say, hung choral mics will be a PITA, and will likely offer little benefit. Having at least a couple wireless mics does seem reasonable to me - at least two handhelds and two headset/hair mic, etc.

 

[DaveySimps]

You really seem to have many of the major components addressed. I would ask myself this; What are the items that I find are most requested of us, that we do not have, and start there.

I would say that wireless systems are not unreasonable to expect in a venue. You can argue all day long about what number of systems is right for you. I'd say 4 wireless systems with both hand held and lav mic transmitters would be a good start for a multi purpose venue. Certainly if you find yourself doing a lot of musical theatre, you might want to consider more lav mic systems. If you simply cannot afford good wireless systems, using hanging mics and area mics (such as PCC's) are an alternative so you have some sort of method of reinforcement for musical theatre. The placement of your orchestra pit has a huge effect on what reinforcement is needed here.

Do you also have processing (graphic EQ's) for your monitor mixes? How about an effects unit (reverb / delay) or two? Perhaps you have no need for these, but they are often found in basic sound sound systems. Do you have proper intercom in the venue? How about listening assisted systems for patrons who are hard of hearing? These are items you may wish to consider as well.

~Dave

 

[Footer]

We have 4 channels of wireless in house and that covers 99% of the music we do. Half the time we rent it is because we a pin-up problem if people are carrying head worn mics. Wireless are certainly nice to have.

In a house as small as yours you can probably get away with a kick (beta 52 or M88), snare (SM57), and overhead (SM81) for drums. Yes, there are more ways to skin that cat but Shure is always rider friendly. Those mics are also useful if you don't have any drums that night. A RE20 is great to have for those bluegrass groups that all the kids like these days. After those staples some large diaphragm condensers are next on the list such as a AKG 414 or a Shure KSM32. If you feel you need them the sennheiser 604 is the new standard tom mic (and is also much cheaper then the beta 98).

Mic collections take time to build. Ebay is your friend. Don't buy anything until you feel you need it. Mics are VERY cheap to rent (and ship). However, most dynamic mics are also pretty cheap. With a fist full of 57s, 58s, a 52, and a few 81's you can do just about anything. Without knowing your programming it is nearly impossible to really answer this question.

Final thought though, are you doing any sort of "PA Rental" for outside (and inside) groups/shows? A buy back system like this tends to work well. We charge a different rate depending on what is used for the day. If you just want a podium and a mic, its a pretty low rate. If you want our monitor rig, wireless, and our full mic inventory its a totally other rate.

 

[museav]

I think it is pretty standard to have some basic wireless microphone capability but I agree that four channels is probably sufficient as a baseline and if somebody wants capsules other than what you have or anything like that they can bring their own. Where budget is tight you might consider initially getting two handheld transmitters and two bodypack transmitters but just two receivers such that you can 'mix and match' any two transmitters.

I agree that it may make sense to try to define a 'basic' sound package that covers one group of your typical events as well as an 'enhanced' package that covers the majority of other events with associated additional costs but to not worry too much about anything that doesn't occur fairly regularly. There is real logic behind it but it also can help with perception as people with basic needs aren't as likely to feel that they are getting charged for extras while people that want more can see that they are getting soemthing for the extra cost.

 

[JLNorthGA]

We have 4 channels of wireless in house and that covers 99% of the music we do. Half the time we rent it is because we a pin-up problem if people are carrying head worn mics. Wireless are certainly nice to have.

In a house as small as yours you can probably get away with a kick (beta 52 or M88), snare (SM57), and overhead (SM81) for drums. Yes, there are more ways to skin that cat but Shure is always rider friendly. Those mics are also useful if you don't have any drums that night. A RE20 is great to have for those bluegrass groups that all the kids like these days. After those staples some large diaphragm condensers are next on the list such as a AKG 414 or a Shure KSM32. If you feel you need them the sennheiser 604 is the new standard tom mic (and is also much cheaper then the beta 98).

Mic collections take time to build. Ebay is your friend. Don't buy anything until you feel you need it. Mics are VERY cheap to rent (and ship). However, most dynamic mics are also pretty cheap. With a fist full of 57s, 58s, a 52, and a few 81's you can do just about anything. Without knowing your programming it is nearly impossible to really answer this question.

Final thought though, are you doing any sort of "PA Rental" for outside (and inside) groups/shows? A buy back system like this tends to work well. We charge a different rate depending on what is used for the day. If you just want a podium and a mic, its a pretty low rate. If you want our monitor rig, wireless, and our full mic inventory its a totally other rate.

The size of our space is such that we are trying to hush and quiet the drums rather than amplify them.

 

[JLNorthGA]

You really seem to have many of the major components addressed. I would ask myself this; What are the items that I find are most requested of us, that we do not have, and start there.

I would say that wireless systems are not unreasonable to expect in a venue. You can argue all day long about what number of systems is right for you. I'd say 4 wireless systems with both hand held and lav mic transmitters would be a good start for a multi purpose venue. Certainly if you find yourself doing a lot of musical theatre, you might want to consider more lav mic systems. If you simply cannot afford good wireless systems, using hanging mics and area mics (such as PCC's) are an alternative so you have some sort of method of reinforcement for musical theatre. The placement of your orchestra pit has a huge effect on what reinforcement is needed here.

Do you also have processing (graphic EQ's) for your monitor mixes? How about an effects unit (reverb / delay) or two? Perhaps you have no need for these, but they are often found in basic sound sound systems. Do you have proper intercom in the venue? How about listening assisted systems for patrons who are hard of hearing? These are items you may wish to consider as well.

~Dave

We have a Midiverb. We have walkie talkies as opposed to intercom. We also have a hearing impaired system. Our orchestra pit is usually covered by our apron - so we don't worry about it.

 

[FMEng]

The size of our space is such that we are trying to hush and quiet the drums rather than amplify them.

Then add a drum enclosure to your wish list. If you use a full one, you'll want to mic the drums to add some presence back into the mix.

 

[Footer]

Have you had any guest/road engineers yet? If so, have they offered any advice or had any massive complaints? Have you had an act really throw a fit yet? If so, what did they complain about? What has been giving you problems during in the advancing of gigs? Your venue is kind of in a weird spot. Most bands will be happy with whatever you can give them but at the same time they might expect more then the corner bar.

Also keep in mind that with few exceptions most musicians rarely ask for wireless, especially in a venue your size. The wireless will help you with the community events where no one wants to make actual decisions. It is very rare for us to use any of our RF stuff for concerts. On the flipside we have our RF gear out for just about every dance gig and corporate show.

 

[JLNorthGA]

Have you had any guest/road engineers yet? If so, have they offered any advice or had any massive complaints? Have you had an act really throw a fit yet? If so, what did they complain about? What has been giving you problems during in the advancing of gigs? Your venue is kind of in a weird spot. Most bands will be happy with whatever you can give them but at the same time they might expect more then the corner bar.

Also keep in mind that with few exceptions most musicians rarely ask for wireless, especially in a venue your size. The wireless will help you with the community events where no one wants to make actual decisions. It is very rare for us to use any of our RF stuff for concerts. On the flipside we have our RF gear out for just about every dance gig and corporate show.

Any guest/road engineers? Several - with no real complaints. Someone did want us to have EQ capability - but that was before we got the DriveRack PA+. Since then, no complaints. The only people to ask for wireless have been events with children singing - so community events.

 

[Footer]

Next time you have a road engineer in (and they seem like they know their stuff... Not all do) pick their brain on what you need. that will get you closer to support your actual programming.



Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

 

[chieftfac]

This is something we have been discussing here at my theater for several years and it's a hard concept for some board members to grasp. It's a strange industry we work in. You hire a group to do a show, and they tell you what they need, and if you don't have it, you have to rent it, or come to some agreement with them to work with what you have. Not the normal customer/service provider protocol. Hey, How close to Tryon NC are you? If you want a tour or to come see a show let me know. Steep Canyon Rangers tonight!!! (No Steve Martin though)

 

[JLNorthGA]

Hey, How close to Tryon NC are you? If you want a tour or to come see a show let me know. Steep Canyon Rangers tonight!!! (No Steve Martin though)

Hayesville, NC - so about 160 miles by road (if you want to drive fast) or 140 miles by road (if you like twisty, windy mountain roads). If you travel by air - maybe 100 miles.

We really haven't had much trouble with requests of groups that we have come in - I try to get the tech requirements done ahead of time - if at all possible.

We can't really rent - as we're two hours from anywhere.

 

[museav]

This is something we have been discussing here at my theater for several years and it's a hard concept for some board members to grasp. It's a strange industry we work in. You hire a group to do a show, and they tell you what they need, and if you don't have it, you have to rent it, or come to some agreement with them to work with what you have. Not the normal customer/service provider protocol. Hey, How close to Tryon NC are you? If you want a tour or to come see a show let me know. Steep Canyon Rangers tonight!!! (No Steve Martin though)

I see your amphitheater has its Grand Opening this weekend, congrats! We keep talking about taking another trip to the Orchard Inn up the road, if we do we'll have to stop by.

 

[TimmyP1955]

If you are two hours from a rental house, you are one business day away via UPS, and on small items the shipping both ways will be less than the cost of gas plus road time.