Speaking the language of our business

[mstaylor]

I have a theatre background, although no formal schooling. I did the HS and community theatre and helped at our local college. I have also since HS worked in the arena/corperate stage of the business. The problem is even though we use the same equipment we tend to speak different laguages. In theatre you have MEs, Tds and A1/A2s. In the concert/corporate world you have LDs, House engineers and other similar jobs.
I remember years ago I did a small kids theatre production in my arena. It was a Sesame Street type show associated with a TV show but at no where near the professional level SS is. Anyway it was the first time I heard the term Master Electrician. The girl in charge of lights came in and introduced herself as the ME. The problem was they had rented a R/R company to bring in a 60K par rig, some additional trusses and stacks and racks for the sound company. She didn't have a clue including not knowing why her board wouldn't bring up anything, no softpatch. The lighting guy assumed that saying she was the Master Electrician was arrogance, so he was completely unwilling to help her when she got in trouble trying to get her gear running, but instead was simply announcing her position.
Last year I advanced a theatre tour coming into my arena and she said it was a ten point show. My boss was on the phone also and it was quickly obvious that he only speaks arena and she spoke theatre. I had to interpret and finally came up with that it was a forty point show.
I just never understood why the disconnect between the two areas of the business. I won't even bring in the TV/movie difference in language. I guess there is no real point to this except to note that there is a huge disconnect between the different areas of our business.

 

[LXPlot]

re: Seeking the language of our business

Care to explain the meanings of ten point vs. forty point show? Is it rigging points? The wiki does not seem to have those terms.

 

[Van]

re: Seeking the language of our business

Micheal, Hence the CB Wiki ! I have had an almost life long fascination with Etimology and I love exploring the different terms for common items, from venue to venue and town to town and Region to region.

 

[PeterBuchin]

re: Seeking the language of our business

Van,
You like bugs?
What do bugs have to do with anything here?
Oh, yeah, the IA bug...

 

[Footer]

re: Seeking the language of our business

There are a few reasons for it. First, 99% of colleges teach how to work in a repertory theatre setting. They are taught to put up shows that will run for weeks and take weeks to put up. Its how I was educated. The term "bridle" or "pear ring" never entered into my college education. Nor did 120k rig, pre-rig, dimmer beach, burlap, basket, monitor world, or about half of what I do day to day in my job. One reason for that is very few college have an arena and the ones that do students are measly peons in the system. Its just something you don't come into contact with. This is one reason why ETCP separates out rigging into two categories. No school teaches how to tour, how to work in an arena, and most do a very poor job of teaching rigging at all let along temporary rigging such as truss and motors.

Because arenas and producing houses like mine hire a bunch of people for short stints of work, they tend to develop a work force that is not fully trained in how to put up shows. When I am staffing a rock show, I look at one thing... "Can they push a case and take direction?". Therefore, college degrees are not at all required and college degrees are not attracted to that side of the business. Granted, I have many that work for me but they are also working other places as a primary. All my heads have degrees in some sort of production. However, many places (like yours) have heads that spent years learning the trade on the job and worked their way up. Its just another approach to the business.

About a month an a half ago one of my friends from college was in town on a national tour of a larger theatre show. We met up and spent probably 3 hours discussing what we were not taught in college and the huge disconnect there was between live event production/touring world and traditional theatre. It really boils down to the people that "get it" will be able to make the transistion and the ones that don't will continue to work in a rep theatre making 400 a week. Best thing I ever did in college was go to overhire for the local union in an arena and working road shows at the on campus road house.

So, what about the language used to describe jobs... First, the term Master Electrician in my view is dyeing off in favor of Production Electrician. In my venue, we call the head lighting position either lighting direcotor or head electrician. In the event production world its usual practice for the person in charge to also be the designer, in the theatre world that is rarely the case therefore you get different terms. In the theatre world the head rigger is usually called the head carpenter or master carpenter, in the production world its head rigger/lead rigger/rigging crew chief... Its all the same.

So, just remember if you get theatre people in where they are coming from. There is a different language involved, however, all can be worked out. Its not easy. The same thing would happen if you had to put up a show in a double purchase house.

 

[mstaylor]

re: Seeking the language of our business

I understand why it happens, it is tough if not impossible to teach arena style tech in college. I just find the terminology differences interesting. For example, do you think calling the guy a master electrician in theatre and head of electrics on tour the difference in a degree? Being most theatre guys do have some type of degree and many touring guys don't. I know there are exceptions on both sides. I am a self taught/OJT guy that was also a building contractor for a long time with my Dad building pretty highend custom houses. Everytime somebody would say he was a master carpenter, he would take exception. He said wasn't a master anything and when he made it he would quit. So I guess I'm saying theatre titles seem somewhat pretentious. It seems a disconnect for me to call anybody in school a master anything, but that isn't the point of my thread, not entirely.
I have years in the arena side of the business but my theatre side is with all fixed stages, no flys. I could not walk into a theatre and be a TD or head carp in a fly house. I have a theatre production coming up that right now want 1200 ft of truss and sixty motors. I can do that with no problem, but wouldn't know where to start when they go back into a real theatre that the show was designed for.

 

[Footer]

re: Seeking the language of our business

Many people who tour theatre shows do have degrees. I have seen some people come through with ballet company's with MFAs... and they are kicking marley (that degree really worked out well for them!). In the R&R world the most degree I ever hear of is in recording. I have never heard the term "sound designer" used in the concert world.

I have always had a bit of an issue with the "master" thing as well... but my father is also a IBEW master electrician so that makes a difference to me. Why the are different I personally think leads back to how each person comes into the gig. In theatre things are carried on by tradition. In the event production world job titles tend to more closely resemble what they do in the "real world". Why, who knows.

My favorite "big" title is this one: State Electrician

 

[ruinexplorer]

re: Seeking the language of our business

So, what about the language used to describe jobs... First, the term Master Electrician in my view is dyeing off in favor of Production Electrician.

First let me appologize for the off color remark. Dyeing is the process of applying dye to a fabric. Dieing is used for when something is coming to an end. However, I disagree that Master Electrician is a dieing term.

In my venue, we call the head lighting position either lighting direcotor or head electrician. In the event production world its usual practice for the person in charge to also be the designer, in the theatre world that is rarely the case therefore you get different terms.

This depends on the level of the production in both situations. You get different terms because the jobs are not the same. A production electrician is in charge of his/her show but requires the assistance of the house electrician. In many cases, the production was going in to a union house and the title for the electrician in charge was filled by someone who had attained master (as opposed to apprentice or journeyman). The Lighting Director generally the title for the person who replaces the designer for a long term production built in. S/he is usually in charge of personnel as well as maintaining the design intentions.

In the theatre world the head rigger is usually called the head carpenter or master carpenter, in the production world its head rigger/lead rigger/rigging crew chief... Its all the same.

Again, I disagree. The head/master carpenter is often responsible for the riggers, but when the production is large enough, there is also a head/lead rigger. In that instance the carpenter is still in charge of the stage, but not directly responsible for the riggers. Since the production world is often not in a theater setting, the head rigger is responsible for quite a lot more due to not having permanent rigging. This becomes the reason why ETCP designates between arena and theater riggers. They are not the same.

So, just remember if you get theatre people in where they are coming from. There is a different language involved, however, all can be worked out. Its not easy. The same thing would happen if you had to put up a show in a double purchase house.

My advice would be to remember what the job function is and that will help you designate the title. I agree that this can be quite muddy. This is an exponential problem when people who do not understand the different job duties and self title themselves or when there is a corporate/governmental body who needs to have consistency in pay so lables all similar jobs with the same title, even though they have different responsibilities. Currently I am a show technician but my "official" job title is for a maintenance position. Go figure.

 

[derekleffew]

re: Seeking the language of our business

...My favorite "big" title is this one: State Electrician

"As the guy was unloading his electric chair, I realized the problem. I had told the producer we needed a stage electrician, and he heard state electrician!"

In truth, Master Electrician (Master Carpenter/Master Flyman/Master of Properties/etc.) probably shouldn't be used outside of theatre, and perhaps not within either.
Production Electrician is problematic also. Does it mean the show's (the production's) Electrician during the run, or Electrician while the show is being assembled (in production)?
Head Electrician is often a union description and many times may not be the most competent or experienced person present.
Maybe eventually, ETCP Electrician will alleviate some confusion. Maybe not.
"Under orders of the Production Electrician, the Advance Electrician met with the House Electrician, but when the Show Electrician arrived, all the power was still wrong."
There's also the problem of Assistant Lighting Designer vs. Assistant to the Lighting Designer.

To further complicate matters, many venues separate Lighting and Electrics. A venue's House Electrician probably doesn't have a clue about a grandMA, other than it pulls about 5A at 120V, and 2.5A at 220V.
-----

First let me appologize for the off color remark. Dyeing is the process of applying dye to a fabric. Dieing is used for when something is coming to an end. However, I disagree that Master Electrician is a dieing term. ...

I see what you did there. Shirley, you mean't dying? citation.

Perhaps "Master ..." should dye, if for no other reason than the implicated gender bias issue.

 

[Footer]

re: Seeking the language of our business

There's also the problem of Assistant Lighting Designer vs. Assistant to the Lighting Designer.

That one is rather simple. If both exist, the one who has "to" in their name get the coffee. If only one exists, then the coffee duties fall to him/her regardless of title. In my view, that is the only difference.

 

[avkid]

re: Seeking the language of our business

That one is rather simple. If both exist, the one who has "to" in their name get the coffee. If only one exists, then the coffee duties fall to him/her regardless of title. In my view, that is the only difference.

Isn't that what production runners are for?

 

[ruinexplorer]

re: Seeking the language of our business

Shirley, you mean't dying? citation.

Perhaps "Master ..." should dye, if for no other reason than the implicated gender bias issue.

Surely I meant dying. Dieing (my faux pas) is a process of cutting using a die (see definition 2).

However, "Master" would only imply a gender bias when used in social title and not a title based off the mastery of a skill. This is why a props mistress is an errant term. It assumes a gender for the position. Of course, there are gender based titles such as seamstress and tailor to represent the same basic job. I assume that these should die off as well?

 

[Van]

re: Seeking the language of our business

Van,
You like bugs?
What do bugs have to do with anything here?
Oh, yeah, the IA bug...

Etymology

Not

Entomology

 

[Thelightinggal]

re: Seeking the language of our business

This has actually been on my mind a lot lately. I feel that not only job titles are different in different sub fields of our business, but also the terms for what we use, such as cabling and the like. For instance, I called an adapter for Stage pin to Edison a turn around, where as my new place calls that a cross over. I did not know what they were talking about at first and felt like an idiot when I did not know what they were saying. I knew what they were talking about when they told me, I had just been calling it by a different name, a turn around. So this bothered me. I began thinking that people might think that I do not know as much as I should if I question something that is being called by a different name, than what ive been calling it.

I guess you just have to learn the term for everything. Ellipsodal, ERS, Leko ..all the same instrument...this I learned over the years. hmm...things to think about, I guess you learn the different names of the same things as you advance in the business...

 

[derekleffew]

re: Seeking the language of our business

...For instance, I called an adapter for Stage pin to Edison a turn around, where as my new place calls that a cross over. ...

FWIW, you're both wrong. A turnaround is used to change genders, and a crossover, by definition, must have pins swapped. Since there's less confusion using the term adapter, why not just use that one? Yes, our industry often has many names for the same item, but allowing and even perpetuating incorrect usage of terms certainly helps no one. If you're new, or the lowest person, you may not be able to change other's bad behavior, but you don't have to adopt the bad practices yourself. As always, pick your battles carefully.

 

[ruinexplorer]

re: Seeking the language of our business

In total agreement with Derek. Of course you also have to stand your ground (and not be indignant) when someone tries to "correct" you. I still have a hard time saying "Leko" to refer to any ERS. But, obviously you have to follow some customs depending on where you work, just to have a productive work environment.

 

[Thelightinggal]

re: Seeking the language of our business

FWIW, you're both wrong. A turnaround is used to change genders, and a crossover, by definition, must have pins swapped. Since there's less confusion using the term adapter, why not just use that one? Yes, our industry often has many names for the same item, but allowing and even perpetuating incorrect usage of terms certainly helps no one. If you're new, or the lowest person, you may not be able to change other's bad behavior, but you don't have to adopt the bad practices yourself. As always, pick your battles carefully.

Well, oh dear....I am a grad student, this was an undergrad who said "crossover" and I did not know what in the world was going on. At a job I work at back home, ive heard them just referred to as adaptors In my undergrad I always was taught turn around was stage pin to edison... I was either taught wrong, or some people use different terms even if they are wrong. But thanks for telling me! I will remember now that a turn around is to change genders. And with a cross over having pins swapped, could you describe what you mean? Thank you so much!

And- in addition - I knew what this kid was saying because he was describing what he wanted to do, he just used an odd term..I really wanted to correct him, but in order to not look like I was not sure what I was saying, I just floated over it...yeah it is a good idea to pick battles wisely.

 

[derekleffew]

re: Seeking the language of our business

See wiki entry crossover, or Crossover cable - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

 

[museav]

Re: Seeking the language of our business

In the R&R world the most degree I ever hear of is in recording.

That may often be true, however I've seen people with degrees in Electrical Engineering, Physics, Mechanical Engineering, Management, Music (theory and/or performance), etc. in the concert touring and production world. Someone I work with who teaches audio classes, tunes many of the systems in the area and mixes at numerous venues was working on his Masters in Materials Engineering at Georgia Tech. Jamie Anderson, President of Rational Acoustics and who has mixed for tours such as KD Lang and Dave Matthews, studied optical physics, has a BS in Electrical Engineering and has an MFA in Technical Design and Production from the Yale School of Drama. A friend who now acts and provides fight choreography full time was formerly an acoustical consultant and has a BS in Mechanical Engineering from Duke and an MS in Mechanical Engineering with a specialty in acoustics from Georgia Tech.

A1/A2, FOH mixer, monitor mixer, House Engineer, Band Engineer, house mixer, sound tech, etc. are other examples of different terminology used for similar roles.

 

[shiben]

Re: Seeking the language of our business

I just have to throw out there that I found the strangest thing to be people who refer to S4 ERS type instruments as "Source 4 Lekos" (two brand names) but calling a S4 PAR EA a "PAR Can" and an Altman PAR64 a "Standard PAR". Why the PAR can is not standard and a S4 PAR is not easier to say I dont know. However, run with it. As for ME/HE/PE, I have always been taught that the Master Electrician was the guy/gal who was in charge of electrics during the run of a show, the Head Electrician was in charge of an electrics call, and a production electrician was the guy/gal who was in charge of electrics during the planning/building/tech of a show, rather like the production stage manager would be in charge of the show for the production time, vs the run time. Again, just what we have been taught where I am from, and to me it makes a lot of sense. The "Master" role coming from guilds and unions... Although "Mistress of Electrics" does have a certain ring to it... and maybe a chain or two. Not sure how house positions would be designated, when I had a head job in electrics at my school the job title on my pay stub was "Master Electrician" but all the programs printed it as "Head Electrician"...

Perhaps the differences between theater and arena/corporate production should be written about by our resident pedantist... It may have something to do with the historical differences between views of theater as an art form and corporate production as more of a job/less artistic, or perhaps the kind of people who rise and succeed in various areas of the industry?