Spot & Wash in one fixture

Have anyone try the Elation Designspot575E?

What do you think about it?
being use for spot as well as using as wash.

Please give me some comment about it.
technical, performance, durability, realiability ?

As well, would you prefer to use it to replace a spot or a wash on your next project?

 

Have you ever used/seen a High End Studio Spot 575 with the frost filter on? It looks exactly the same, so its not really a wash light per say, but can be used as one. If I had a choice between a 'spot light' with a frost filter and a wash light, I would take the spot. If you can get both, so much the better. If you haven't seen a Studio Spot 575 with frost on, the best way I can describe it is get a leko, do a hard focus, and then drop some frost gel in it, like R101. Its almost the same principle, just won't be as spread as the leko.

As far as durability, performance, etc, I don't know yet because I have yet to see one. I can tell you that the Power Spot 700 revials a Mac 700 side by side. I can also tell you that a Mac 550 will be slightly brighter thanks to better optics despite a 400w lamp compared to a 575w lamp. Lamp life goes to Design Spot. Both have effects wheels, iris, and near identical zooms. The Mac 550 has more gobos, 6 rotating and 9 static. The Design Spot 575 has 2 rotating wheels with 6 gobos a piece. The Mac 550 has 2 color wheels, were as the Design Spot 575 has CMY and a color wheel. The Design Spot 575 also frost as you said, a prism, and a faster strobe at 13hz compared to 10hz of the Mac 550.

The Design Spot 575 can also be had for around 4 grand compared to roughly $6800 for the Mac 550. Thats like saying for one Mac 550 you get 1.5 Design Spot 575's. I would say it looks like a good buy. I defiantly want to have one demoed because I am also interested in these. Problem is they are brand new, demoed for first time last November, and didn't start shipping until February this year, so things like durability just aren't known yet as it is still new. If I have it demoed, I'll be sure to let you know how it looks.

I can also speak from experience about Elation's Power Spot 575 and 575IE if you would like to know about them.

 

Elation (the high end division of American DJ) makes some nice products despite the bad warp. My concern is not so much the manufacturer as much as the concept. Two different optical trains are used for the different concepts. In a spot, you are looking for the tightest arc gap in the lamp for point focusing, (Remember the original varilites used a marc 350 lamp, and did pretty well! very very short gap) and for all of that light to fall on a focused gate. (gobo or iris) In a wash, you are looking for a slightly more diffused source lamp as the biggest design challenge is getting a smooth output field without loosing much light in the diffusion process. I think the trend is towards getting both out of the same fixture, but I'm not sure they compete with dedicated fixtures. Maybe I'm behind the curve on that one! Only way to tell is a/b comparison.

 

I did a little more digging. Just like JD said, different types of lamps for wash and spot lights but now a days, the washes and spots share lamps. Frost also hurts intensity big time: http://www.martin.com/spec/photometfull.asp?product=710
You can see that the efficency drops by about 20% when the frost filter is applied to the Mac. I expect roughly the same if not better for the Designs as thats a 250 wash vs a 575 spot.

Also, if shopping for 250s, Elation's Design 250 series is better cost wise then Martin's Mac 250 line, can get twice the lights for the same or more features. The Design Wash 250 is also slightly brighter, has a zoom, and beam shaper, just no frost filter. They all use the same lamp. So expect the Design Spot 250 to roughly be the same intensity wise as Mac 250s. Design Spot 250s have been around a little longer and I have heard nothing but good things about them.

 

How about this one?

High End Showgun. This fixture is tits.

Product Page

 

Hee hee! Comes with a free chiropractic visit too!

 

Yeeeah...there's a reason that they designed the case like that...
If only we could all afford a few showguns.

 

Depends on what you want to wash. Both the HE - SS and the Elation have a max. zoom out of 30 degrees, vs. say a Martin 700 wash which has a 65 degree range.

You end up either trimming higher or using more fixtures with the do-it-all spot/wash fixture, as opposed to a dedicated wash.

In any event, I would dedicated tungsten wash fixture - TW1, VL500 etc.. over a do-it all.

SB

 

Lol, its nice, minus the fact that a) its huge, really really huge b) you need a chiropractic visit after you hang and unhang the thing and c) it needs 220v, which in my opinion really sucks because it will never be able to be used in smaller venues here in the states where 120v is standard. I would like to play with them sometime though.

However, it looks to me like High End saw they were losing ground in the moving light area. This is not surprising since they canned all the Studio 250s, Track Spot, and Techno Beam. Also, the Studio 575s are really showing there age at this point. Just looks like another X-Spot, we will through everything we can in it and hope for the best, screw channel count and all the other problems with it. Now its let's make it as big as possible with a really bright lamp that can't be used everywhere, let alone in high numbers because of how ridiculously huge it is and how much power it eats. I'll keep VL3000s which are about 50% smaller area wise, 35% lighter, and 50% less power as well as Mac 2ks which are about 40% smaller area wise, 40% lighter and 40% less power. Cost ratio is also like 3:1 as well rental wise, not sure about to buy. /rant

 

True SteveB, but I am talking about if you only had a few bucks to spend, I would go for the spot with frost, more versatile. Of course, it always depends on what you are using it for. I wouldn't recommend spots with frost filters to do a cyc wash for instance. And if you had more money, get both, because each is better then the other at what it was made for. Wash lights for washes, and spots for gobos and spots.

 

Hee hee! Don't think it would make it into too many "smaller venues" with that instruction of not pointing it at anything closer than 12 feet away! (Love the warning sticker! http://www.highend.com/support/automated_luminaires/showgun/showgunwarning.asp ) Of course it does feed into my evil streak... "You wanted to be stars! Now feel the heat!!"

 

Based on my actual comparison (a new DS to a 1+/- year old Entour with a relatively new lamp) of a DesignSpot250 and an Entour, the Entour is a little brighter. It's also a little faster. Personally, I don't like the gobos or colors as much as I like the stock Entour choices, either. Yes, both can be replaced.

Having said all that, I can rent a DS for $65, but an Entour is $100. Purchase price is also higher. So I usually choose the DS because my clientele wouldn't know the difference unless they were side by side. Even then, I doubt they would care. I think it comes down to what features are most important to you, and whether you believe Martin has a more reliable product or not (which I do).

As for the frost effect, I use it very rarely, but that has more to do with the types of events I'm doing than the usefulness of the effect.

 

Sorry to hear you disagree, but I stand by my point. When you are talking spots, it's all about point source. If you turn your unit off and open the shutter/douser and look right in the lens, you will see one electrode. That is because only one will end up at the optical center of the reflector. Standardizing lamps and fixtures are one thing, but designing the best spot always requires a tight point source. The closer the electrodes (short arc) the more effective the light source is. In DC xenon spots, the output is primarily on one electrode (thus the different shapes), sadly, ac HMI's produce two equal point sources, one on each electrode. The closer they are, the better, but there can only be one mathematical center to a parabolic, one gate cross point, and one beam convergence.

 

Lol. You know JD, they should put those warning stickers on the big 5k and up fresnels. I can remember doing Oz Feast '05 at the Tweeter Center and they were having problems with some of the 5ks not striking on the out door stage. They lowered in the batten with the 5ks in question, leaving the others on. Well, after a minute or so, the stage started to smoke under the ones that were on and they quickly turned them off. Talk about a sun tan.

Anyway, haven't done a side by side of the Design Spot 250 and Mac 250s yet, so thanks for the info len about the side by side. As far as the washes go, I would take the Design Wash 250 over the Mac Wash 250 because on paper at least, its brighter and it has more options like a zoom and beam shaper for less money. This is despite the fact that a Mac Wash 250 can get a much larger spread thanks to lens options and frost which just makes it dimmer ultimately. I can get 2 Design Washes for every one Mac Wash to fix that. There again, you might need that big of a beam in some situations.

 

Thank you all for the comment
I see there is a few to consider for.
but one thing for sure that it is morely likely to be a spot.
And it can never use as a wash. Which is just a spot with frost.
Well. it depend what do you use it for,
looks like it can't replace a wash, since wash is a moving fresnel.

 

You are correct. A parabolic reflector would produce parallel beam output, we are looking for the beam to collapse and thus use that "modified" ellipsoidal reflector! My bad!

Of course what I was referring to was a spot. Your comment brings me back to my original post, in which I stated that "Two different optical trains are used for the different concepts." In most wash fixtures, the front objective lens is the "theatrical" version of a fresnel lens. I say "theatrical" as fresnels do not use a clean step lens, but one that has a pebble-glass finish designed to introduce many refractive errors to produce a more "even" light. It is a far more efficient system than using a frost which contains opaque particles, or a spun fiber diffuser.

Yes, in an HMI lamp, I stand corrected, the metal vapor in the gas arc does produce most of the light. In xenon lamps, the light output is off of the positive electrode, or anode. (see alignment diagram. Picture credit, PTI Photon Technology International) The exception to this would be the common flash tube.