Stumped (stymied?) - how to move a wagon

[JLNorthGA]

The director for one of our plays next year wants a platform - not unusual for her - she always likes multiple levels (and lots of angles). Unfortunately she would like part of the platform to be a wagon and to move out towards the audience at the end of the show.

Between the wagon and the people on the wagon, we're probably looking at a few hundred pounds. I'm hunting for reasonable, cheap, easy and safe ways to move the wagon and not be too visible. When we did "Hot 'N Cole" - we just pushed the wagon around and wore black. But we could access all sides of the wagon and could push in various places. As this wagon will ordinarily be part of the platform - I don't see an easy way to move it.

My first thoughts were to run some 2 x 4s or whatever under the rear part of the platform and attach them to the wagon and use them to push the wagon out from the platform. As the wagon would only be moving forward, this seems to me to be the easiest idea. I would incorporate handles on the 2 x 4s and probably have marks or stops to limit the wagon's travel. We're still looking at a few hundred pounds though. My next thought was to get a garage door opener. Pretty much do the same thing as the 2 x 4s and be a lot easier on the backs.

I was figuring on making the wagon 4' x 8' (standard sheet of plywood) or possibly 8' x 8'.

There will be a wall on the back of the platform. I'm thinking that the total depth of the wagon and platform will be 12' and the total width would be 16'. I would probably make tracks to keep the wagon aligned.

So - any other ideas on how to move the wagon?

 

[kicknargel]

I think your initial idea is the best one. The pushstick method is tried and true. With good straight casters on a 4x8 with a few people on it, you shouldn't have any trouble moving it with two people pushing. And with only one move to make, you shouldn't need a track. You really do want good casters, though, because ones with cheap bearings will have a higher coefficient of friction, which will translate into a lurch-y start once friction is overcome.

Speaking of a lurch-y start, I'd stay away from the garage door opener.

 

[techieman33]

Speaking of a lurch-y start, I'd stay away from the garage door opener.

Not to mention all of the noise.

 

[MPowers]

From you post, I gather it is about 8' wide left to right and between 4' and 8' upstage/downstage. Over the years I've moved a lot of scenery, from black clad Ninja/Noh stagehand pushers to computer controlled motors. I'm guessing that your need is a lot closer to the former than the latter. However, I've got a couple of questions.

How fast does it have to move (time and distance)?
How far does it move?
How much space is there between the platform and the back wall before the move?
Does this space have to be used for crossover before the move?
How steady does it have to be after the move?
Does it move au-vista?
Does it have to move back during the show?
How tall is the wagon/platform?
Any budget at all?

Fill in these blanks and we can perhaps offer advice to suit your particular need.

 

[JLNorthGA]

How fast does it have to move (time and distance)? - Moving slowly is good.
How far does it move? - Probably 8' tops.
How much space is there between the platform and the back wall before the move? - Maybe about 12' - I'm just working with pencil and paper now.
Does this space have to be used for crossover before the move? - Yes
How steady does it have to be after the move? - Somewhat steady
Does it move au-vista? - ???
Does it have to move back during the show? - This is during the finale
How tall is the wagon/platform? - However tall it needs to be. I was planning on using 4 or 5" casters - so maybe about 1'.
Any budget at all? - Community theater budget - If I get $500 for a total set budget, I'm lucky. I can beg for more if necessary.

I can probably go with push sticks if that is best option. I'd just have to recruit some strong young backs. But the problem with strong young backs is they aren't always so reliable.

 

[Chris15]

If I have my meanings correct, au vista will mean "in view"

 

[kicknargel]

It's going to be easier to push than you think (with high quality casters). Pushing with control and reliability will be the concern, not strength.

 

[kicknargel]

If I have my meanings correct, au vista will mean "in view"

Yes. In theatre, means a set change done visible to the audience (not blackout or closed curtain). And I think it's "a vista." (Derek?)

 

[Chris15]

And I think it's "a vista."

The wiki auto tags would tend to agree

 

[tprewitt]

I think the ole push stick is the simplest, but for 1 man operation what about a hand operated chain drive system?

If the wagon moves a shorter distance than it's length you can mount a sprocket on the floor that acts on a chain on the underside of the platform.

Drive the sprocket with another chain & sprocket system from offstage. If you can weld up brackets this can largely be done on the cheap with salvaged bicycle parts.

Speed, cranking force, etc can be calculated with simple ratios. Take an educated guess at the force needed to move the platform. If you think it would take 3 or 4 hands on a push stick, gear reduce 3:1 or 4:1 under the platform and again at the operation sprocket and you should be able to move it easily enough by cranking on a reasonably short handle. With this reduction it will be slow. If you're using 8" and 2" bi-cycle sprockets you'll need to crank about 240 revolutions to move 8'.

Make at least one of you sprockets easily changeable (and moveable so you don't have to adjust chain length) and try different sizes of sprockets until you get the right balance between force & speed.

Good luck.

-ty

 

[030366]

I did a run of "Big River" where the raft was actually a moving platform, much like what you're describing. Since it was all volunteer crew anyway, the theatre's solution was to "hire" a crew member to be under/in the raft for the duration of the show, pushing it around like a sort of ninja mule. It worked beautifully, but I'd have to say that it definitely wasn't anyone's favorite situation to be in.

For the visibility issue, the platform was raked and also had a bit of masking around it.

 

[Les]

I did a run of "Big River" where the raft was actually a moving platform, much like what you're describing. Since it was all volunteer crew anyway, the theatre's solution was to "hire" a crew member to be under/in the raft for the duration of the show, pushing it around like a sort of ninja mule. It worked beautifully, but I'd have to say that it definitely wasn't anyone's favorite situation to be in.

For the visibility issue, the platform was raked and also had a bit of masking around it.

Ha! A community theatre I used to work at did the same thing, except they had two people under the platform. Their blocking had the platform going all over the place, and on their budget having anything motorized was out of the question. Even though the platform's blocking was way up stage, they apparently painted the first several feet of the apron red so as to warn the "ninja mules" in the event that that they were nearing the edge. Sounded kinda dangerous but they made it through the run incident free (I wasn't around yet when they did the show, but I did see the archive tape).

 

[JLNorthGA]

Thanks for clarifying the "au vista". I was thinking au gratin (with cheese) - so when I saw "au vista" - I was thinking - "with sight".

The answer is - no - the edge of the back platform will have vertical flats attached to the platform.

We're doing Little Shop of Horrors and the director wants Audrey II to move out from the shop (the rest of the platforms) during the final moments.

 

[derekleffew]

So you're looking at a live move of a 12'D x 16'W wagon with an upstage wall of flats attached? How high is the platform? Use fixed (rigid/one-way/"dumb") caster s, and two beefy or three normal stagehands (depending on personnel, 'normal' may equal 'beefy'). Avoid tracks if at all possible; performers will trip on them the entire show.

If drilling into the stage floor is permitted, use cane bolt s with holes at both spike positions. (If drilling is not permitted, use wagon brake s). Since you'll probably need stage jack s anyway, make them strong enough to also incorporate as handles.
.

 

[JLNorthGA]

So you're looking at a live move of a 12'D x 16'W wagon with an upstage wall of flats attached? How high is the platform? Use fixed (rigid/one-way/"dumb") caster s, and two beefy or three normal stagehands (depending on personnel, 'normal' may equal 'beefy'). Avoid tracks if at all possible; performers will trip on them the entire show.

If drilling into the stage floor is permitted, use cane bolt s with holes at both spike positions. (If drilling is not permitted, use wagon brake s). Since you'll probably need stage jack s anyway, make them strong enough to also incorporate as handles.
.

I'm looking at moving a smaller wagon. The 12' D x 16' W dimensions are the size of the platform with the upstage wall attached. The platform can be any height - whatever is convenient for 4" or 5" rigid casters. I am going to have a tongue or center subsection of the 12' D x 16' W platform move out from the rest of the platform. That will be the wagon. I'll probably make that either 8' D x 4' W or 8' D x 8' W. So the front will be 4' W platform/8' W wagon/4' W platform or something similar. The flats will not move (been there, done that).

It will probably come forward about 6-8' at the finale of the play.

I built a set for "Two into One" that had the upper part of two hotel suites on a wagon. That was 32' W and 12' D. That needed four people to move it.

 

[MPowers]

........ so when I saw "au vista" - I was thinking - "with sight".
The answer is - no - the edge of the back platform will have vertical flats attached to the platform.
We're doing Little Shop of Horrors and the director wants Audrey II to move out from the shop (the rest of the platforms) during the final moments.

As several have pointed out it's a vista rather than au vista, however, JLNorthGA, your answer is YES. The platform moves IN SIGHT of the audience, they see it move, that's a vista.

 

[tyler.martin]

One suggestion if you are going with the human powered option would be to use a router to cut a small path into the deck and use a knife or guide on the wagon to make sure it moves true upstage and down.

To make our wagons move we have chains mounted into our deck with a variable speed motor on the wagon with a sprocket, and variable speed motor controls just off stage. We usually have 2 of the guides that i mentioned to keep the wagons straight.