Suggested Lighting Rig?

[DanielDeL]

Hello,

My school is building a blackbox theater, and I am partially in charge of creating a lighting rig for it. Do you guys have any suggestions?

The requirements are: must use only LED fixtures, must be able to light an approximately 24x24 foot stage, must be less than $12k (not including console), and must be upgradable.

Any suggestions?
Thanks

 

[RonHebbard]

Hello,

My school is building a blackbox theater, and I am partially in charge of creating a lighting rig for it. Do you guys have any suggestions?

The requirements are: must use only LED fixtures, must be able to light an approximately 24x24 foot stage, must be less than $12k (not including console), and must be upgradable.

Any suggestions?
Thanks

@DanielDeL Building from scratch; digging a hole and pouring foundations OR renovating an existing space? Please post more details. If an existing space, is it presently a classroom, gymnasium, cafeteria?? Is it air conditioned, heated and ventilated??? Is it fire protected; smoke detectors, sprinklers???? What about seating for patrons; level floor, sloped floor, fixed seating, loose / stacking chairs; seating on one side, in the round, in one corner????? Wall finishes, ceiling height and type?????? What types of presentations, straight plays, musicals, concerts, fashion shows, will you be shooting video??????? Are there windows to be contended with???????? So many questions. Please provide further details.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[Pie4Weebl]

Get a bigger budget!

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

12 Colorsource Pars. Maybe add two ColorSource relays. Unless your answer to how lights can hang is less than 12-14'. And does the $10k have to include the support for hanging the fixtures? A picture of what's overhead would help.

 

[IanTech]

12 Colorsource Pars. Maybe add two ColorSource relays. Unless your answer to how lights can hang is less than 12-14'. And does the $10k have to include the support for hanging the fixtures? A picture of what's overhead would help.

Is wireless generally a cost saving measure? I will never trust wireless DMX since we have wireless comms, WiFi, and wireless microphones all in the same space.

 

[RonHebbard]

Is wireless generally a cost saving measure? I will never trust wireless DMX since we have wireless comms, WiFi, and wireless microphones all in the same space.

@IanTech I'm sure many posters will disagree with me; possibly I'm too old and stuck in my ways, personally, a well installed length of the proper cable beats even the best wireless 99.9% of the time. (I'll crawl back in my cave and massage my abacus.)
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Is wireless generally a cost saving measure? I will never trust wireless DMX since we have wireless comms, WiFi, and wireless microphones all in the same space.

I said two relays, and no mention of transmitter, so not wireless. I thought relays were needed as part of LED rig. Thought any console would have 2 dmx out - so easily wired. Good gor up to 20 units. But I am not afraid of wireless dmx, especially in a small one room studio space like this seems to be. Flexible and useful in inventory when a permanent data system is installed.

 

[DanielDeL]

@DanielDeL Building from scratch; digging a hole and pouring foundations OR renovating an existing space? Please post more details. If an existing space, is it presently a classroom, gymnasium, cafeteria?? Is it air conditioned, heated and ventilated??? Is it fire protected; smoke detectors, sprinklers???? What about seating for patrons; level floor, sloped floor, fixed seating, loose / stacking chairs; seating on one side, in the round, in one corner????? Wall finishes, ceiling height and type?????? What types of presentations, straight plays, musicals, concerts, fashion shows, will you be shooting video??????? Are there windows to be contended with???????? So many questions. Please provide further details.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

We are renovating an existing space. The size of the room is 55x38 feet, with a ceiling height of 12’. The ceiling is a tile ceiling. Will have air conditioning, fire alarms, etc. It is a blackbox theater, so the seating will depend on the show. We have platforms that we can use to raise the stage and/or the audience. Will be used as a multi-purpose room: will host straight plays, presenters, orchestra concerts, fashion shows, talent shows, etc. No windows. House lights will be installed. The budget is just for the actual lights and there accessories, not for supports, console, etc. All sides will be painted black. The supports will be as shown in red in the picture.

 

[DanielDeL]

Is wireless generally a cost saving measure? I will never trust wireless DMX since we have wireless comms, WiFi, and wireless microphones all in the same space.

Honestly, I don’t trust wireless either. I have had problems with wireless systems in the past, and although that was probably because it wasn’t set up correctly, I just connected all the fixtures with dmx cable. I don’t want to use wireless, neither wireless dmx nor art-net etc.

 

[DanielDeL]

I said two relays, and no mention of transmitter, so not wireless. I thought relays were needed as part of LED rig. Thought any console would have 2 dmx out - so easily wired. Good gor up to 20 units. But I am not afraid of wireless dmx, especially in a small one room studio space like this seems to be. Flexible and useful in inventory when a permanent data system is installed.

We’re looking at either a QuickQ 20 or 30, so we will have 2 to 4 universes of dmx, so relays are unnecessary.

 

[DanielDeL]

Also, something that is important to me is the ability to reproduce the color of an incandescent fixture.

 

[IanTech]

I said two relays, and no mention of transmitter, so not wireless. I thought relays were needed as part of LED rig. Thought any console would have 2 dmx out - so easily wired. Good gor up to 20 units. But I am not afraid of wireless dmx, especially in a small one room studio space like this seems to be. Flexible and useful in inventory when a permanent data system is installed.

I don't know, I've never used DMX relays, what are they for specifically? I've always thought the ColorSource Relays were for wireless DMX transmission, at least that's how I've seen them used.

 

[RonHebbard]

View attachment 17950
We are renovating an existing space. The size of the room is 55x38 feet, with a ceiling height of 12’. The ceiling is a tile ceiling. Will have air conditioning, fire alarms, etc. It is a blackbox theater, so the seating will depend on the show. We have platforms that we can use to raise the stage and/or the audience. Will be used as a multi-purpose room: will host straight plays, presenters, orchestra concerts, fashion shows, talent shows, etc. No windows. House lights will be installed. The budget is just for the actual lights and there accessories, not for supports, console, etc. All sides will be painted black. The supports will be as shown in red in the picture.

@DanielDeL Replying in your order: Air conditioning usually includes air ducts. Air ducts often include smoke detectors. Smoke detectors often interpret theatrical haze, fog and / or pyro' as fire, ring loud jangly bells and summon the fire department. Keep this in mind.
If / when elevating your patrons, pay attention to building codes, railings and (assuming non-fixed seating) guard strips along side and rear edges to prevent chairs from sliding off. No windows means you ought to be able to achieve great blackouts. What color is your ceiling? With a low ceiling it can be difficult to provide legally adequate house lighting without glare directly into patrons eyes. Consider a light reflective color on your ceiling (Not black) and aim your house lights up and across your ceiling lengthening their throw distance, increasing their spread, providing glare free bounced illumination for your patrons. Can we assume your red supports will be 1.5" internal diameter schedule 40 iron pipe supported at least 3" below your finished ceiling height from steel building structure above your tile ceiling?? Will you have non-dimmed 120 volt AC power permanently supplied via several 15 or 20 amp circuits in close proximity to your overhead supporting pipes as well as several more circuits around the perimeter for up lights, hazers, foggers and a myriad of utility uses??? Don't forget to include emergency egress lighting as well. Will your space be licensed for alcohol???? If so, you'll likely find those in charge of liquor licensing will have even stricter codes than your fire marshal.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[RonHebbard]

I don't know, I've never used DMX relays, what are they for specifically? I've always thought the ColorSource Relays were for wireless DMX transmission, at least that's how I've seen them used.

@IanTech Are they not also used to switch non-dimmed AC on and off via DMX control to switch off the internal power supplies of LED fixtures during periods of non-use?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I don't know, I've never used DMX relays, what are they for specifically? I've always thought the ColorSource Relays were for wireless DMX transmission, at least that's how I've seen them used.

There are wired and wireless CS relays. They use dmx to control relays. They both pass dmx thtough. One recieves dmx by wire, one wirelessly.

I have several wireless installs and they seem fine. Of course i didnt trust cell phones for a while, but now they seem fine.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

We’re looking at either a QuickQ 20 or 30, so we will have 2 to 4 universes of dmx, so relays are unnecessary.

What does console model have to do with switching power on and off? You should have an easy means to de-power the LED fixtures, thats all.

 

[IanTech]

@IanTech Are they not also used to switch non-dimmed AC on and off via DMX control to switch off the internal power supplies of LED fixtures during periods of non-use?
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

Ah, OK. There millisecond sequencers built into/rennovated into venues that switched to LED, never used the CS relays that way

 

[DanielDeL]

What does console model have to do with switching power on and off? You should have an easy means to de-power the LED fixtures, thats all.

My mistake. I confused relays with dmx splitters. We always have access to the circuit breakers, and that is what we will use to turn the power to the lights on and off.

 

[DanielDeL]

@DanielDeL Replying in your order: Air conditioning usually includes air ducts. Air ducts often include smoke detectors. Smoke detectors often interpret theatrical haze, fog and / or pyro' as fire, ring loud jangly bells and summon the fire department. Keep this in mind.
If / when elevating your patrons, pay attention to building codes, railings and (assuming non-fixed seating) guard strips along side and rear edges to prevent chairs from sliding off. No windows means you ought to be able to achieve great blackouts. What color is your ceiling? With a low ceiling it can be difficult to provide legally adequate house lighting without glare directly into patrons eyes. Consider a light reflective color on your ceiling (Not black) and aim your house lights up and across your ceiling lengthening their throw distance, increasing their spread, providing glare free bounced illumination for your patrons. Can we assume your red supports will be 1.5" internal diameter schedule 40 iron pipe supported at least 3" below your finished ceiling height from steel building structure above your tile ceiling?? Will you have non-dimmed 120 volt AC power permanently supplied via several 15 or 20 amp circuits in close proximity to your overhead supporting pipes as well as several more circuits around the perimeter for up lights, hazers, foggers and a myriad of utility uses??? Don't forget to include emergency egress lighting as well. Will your space be licensed for alcohol???? If so, you'll likely find those in charge of liquor licensing will have even stricter codes than your fire marshal.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

The supports are 1.5’’ pipe, they will be hung from a permanent catwalk above the tile ceiling (not a catwalk we are allowed to access, unfortunately). They will be hung about 6” below the tile ceiling. There will be permanent 120 v 20 a circuits riddled around the room, some on the ceiling near the pipes. As for the alcohol license, we’re a high school, so no alcohol allowed on campus! For building codes, I trust that our architect can make sure that we follow those.

As for the house lights, due to budget reasons, we will simply install standard led tile ceiling lights. There is nothing I can do about that, and house lights are not included in the $12k budget. All I personally have control over is the stage lights we buy, and where we put them.

Thanks for your helpful replies!

 

[RonHebbard]

My mistake. I confused relays with dmx splitters. We always have access to the circuit breakers, and that is what we will use to turn the power to the lights on and off.

@DanielDeL Are your circuit breakers rated for such service? Most breaker installed in homes and commercial installations (such as schools and shopping malls) are neither rated for, nor will withstand, such service. Breakers installed in many ETC modules are rated for such applications.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard