Design Suggested Purchase Between 2 Fixtures?

[MrMagLit]

Hi all,

So, we are looking to purchase our LED tops over our high school stage. Dimming is just not an option, because neither the electrics nor the power are there. We are sticking with our conventional S4s for a 3-area open-white front wash. We are yet to demo LED ERS side lights. The majority of stage light is supposed to be supplied by 9 LED PARs in a 3x3 area focus.

For the tops, we narrowed all the demos down to either the ETC ColorSource PAR, or the Microh RIO ZOOM19 QUAD. We like them for their intensity, even color mixing, and simple controls for inexperienced techs. We found that the ETC fixtures needed the Medium Round lens to fill the total surface area. At this point, we can't agree on which light to purchase.

ColorSource offers AMAZING dim curves, a gorgeous amber, beautiful colors, and just a quality feel in general. Unfortunately, it's deepest blue looks like an Italian Blue, Aqua, Turquoise, et cetera. There's just no good primary blue.

Microh offers intensity at any color, and super strong primaries. However, it's obviously a gross, steppy, 8-bit dim. The light quality lacks, and it's almost impossible to make skin look good. Only benefit is the flexibility in the beam angle (5º to 60º DMX-controllable beam, though it adds one more annoying parameter to worry about on our Express 72/144, and we already have 4 MAC250+s to worry about).

It should be added that this is supposed to be a fixed, non refocusable house hang, with flexibility for conventional specials if the MAC250+s can't already do the job for you. It's for this reason that I personally don't see the value in flexible beams. Though, it was also suggested that the Microhs will allow for more interesting effects. I'm just worried the beam channel will end up parked and never used again.

What do you CBers think about it? The ETC PARs are also around $300 cheaper per unit from our vendor.

 

[JohnD]

Just curious which other fixtures have you looked at, for example, the ChromaQ Color one 100 is about the same price point as the ColorSource Par. They don't mention it on their website but I understand there are lenses available for different beam spreads.

 

[BillESC]

Have you looked at Altman's Pegasus LED Fresnels? 10 to 70 degree soft edge beam, both mains or DMX dimmable and uses gel for color.

http://www.altmanlighting.com/fresnel-pegasus.htm

 

[JohnD]

Hey @MrMagLit , it seems we aren't really answering your question, but what strikes me is that neither fixture listed really fits your needs. There has to be a fixture available which would work better. Have you taken a look at the Philips Showline PAR 155. It is a zoom fixture but is a manual zoom, it has a good reputation and might be worth a look.

 

[MrMagLit]

We had intended to demo the Chroma, but it didn't work out with availability of demo units. We did however try the SL PAR, and didn't like it at all. The control was again, beyond some of our inexperienced techs, we're lacking the channels required to operate in 16 bit mode, it wasn't very intense, and the colors weren't even without a frost, further decreasing intensity. The LED color mixing is important to us because we'll have around 15 different acts per performance, from dances to choirs to small drama performances, and that flexibility is very important to us. I'm being picky when I complain about the ColorSource's blues, because they're MUCH better than most products out there. It was just a weaker point that the Microh seemed to get right.

 

[JChenault]

One of the things I hate and am constantly working around with my LED fixtures is the dimming curve. I got the chance to play with some color source units Monday and fell in love.

So for my 2 cents the dimmer curve issue would tip the balance. I think you get used to the gamut limitations. You will be fighting the pop of the down lights when you fade up from black forever.

I'm curious what you mean about the control being beyond your techs. Most consoles hide the issues.

 

[sk8rsdad]

If you have the budget for it, the ETC Desire line with their X7 mixing system covers the blue range better than the ColorSource.

 

[SteveB]

Having both Aura's as well as ColorSource's in our building, I was OK with the blue the ETC could reach when used in a theatrical event. For R&R, I'd want that electric deep blue of the Auras and others like it. But when I asked for an R80 on the ColorSource, it delivered. Really deeper then that, no. But the then it delivered every other color I might have wanted and would use, tints, L201, etc,.. Looks better then what my Auras can deliver with the Aura being brighter. We are using the ColorSources at a 12-16 ft throw, which seems ideal for the fixture, getting a punch about equal to a 750w fresnel.


Then of course you get terrific lending options on the ColorSource, which is a huge selling point, IMO.

 

[MrMagLit]

Thanks for all the replies. My next question is, do you guys see any value to a zoom feature on top lights as a general idea? To me, it seems like "the ability to mess up an otherwise even top wash." If so, how can they be used to actually improve a production?

 

[sk8rsdad]

Zoom is useful if you intend to repurpose the fixture often. If it is almost always going to be used as a top wash then swapping lenses on those rare occasions is a not much of an inconvenience. It's akin to swapping gels. Cost-wise, the additional cost of the zoom feature might be offset by purchasing an inventory of alternate lenses.

 

[robartsd]

Thanks for all the replies. My next question is, do you guys see any value to a zoom feature on top lights as a general idea? To me, it seems like "the ability to mess up an otherwise even top wash." If so, how can they be used to actually improve a production?

I could see intruments hung in a rep plot downlight wash being used as specials or as part of an effect. A zoom feature could easily improve such use; however, it would be hard to justify $300/instrument just to add this feature - there's just too many other ways that $2700 could provide more value.

 

[Lextech]

I have 9 zoomable wash lights as a top wash in my main space. We bought them with the idea that they could be used like a fresnel. I have yet to see that feature used except by me once. Use your money wisely and by the better quality light. Also my two cents on Colorsource fixtures is that they have a decent color range but I would not be happy for theatre applications. I would suggest that you check out the D40 instead. That said I just put 14 Colorsource Spots in my concert hall and for that they work well.

 

[MikeJ]

As far as dimmer curves go, with rare exception, I don't want anything to do with any dimmer curve in a fixture that is not linear. Even the express can use custom dimming curves(i don't remember if you can use several at a time on different fixtures though).

The big issue is if the fixture has a jump from zero to its minimum intensity. As long as a fixture can smoothly go from say, 0-5% then I can control the curve. Built in dimming curves might be okay to match conventional lights, but totally screw color and dimming effects and chases, if its in my house rig, I'd rather keep the curves off an maintain more control from the console. Any fixture that has a "pop" on or off, is a deal breaker for theater.

One notable exception would be in the case where an LD is expecting DWE moles, and I have provided LED variants. I might want to set the curve to match a DWE lamp, so they look like the LD expects because their show file has been programmed with the expectation of a very slow curve, and they may be touring with additional DWE fixtures. Its better to have them just look right, rather than have the LD try and update the curve in his/her show file. The same would go for LED Lekos. If someone just wants conventional lekos with L201, I want to set those in the menu to a color and a curve, so the fixture can patch as a single 8-bit dimmer channel.

I think a manual zoom is fine on static pars. You have to change lenses or lamps on conventional anyway, so its really not any more work.