Automated Fixtures Suggestions for Intelligent Fixture for Community College Blackbox

[ShadowWolf]

Hello everyone,

I just registered but I've been reading on the board off and on for a few years.

My question is this, I'm a technician for a local Community College and we have an ETC Express 48/96. They are open to the idea of potentially getting a few budget intelligent fixtures so long as they will be able to work well in conjunction with our existing inventory (mainly consisting of ETC S4 Jr 575w). The main purpose we would love for these to serve is to be able to free up some of these conventional lights by them being able to be permanently mounted to our grid and serve as area lighting or potentially also for specials. Our dimensions of our play space is 60' W x 50' D x 20' H (to the bottom of the pipe grid), there is a grid above the audience where we hang our FOH lighting (which is roughly another 25-35' of depth. Does anyone has any recommendations for any fixtures that should be able to serve these purposes?

I've been looking at the Chauvet Intimidator Spot LED 450 but as I haven't worked with LED fixtures in a stage environment I'm not sure how well it would work.

Thank you for any help or advice that you guys can give in advance.

Nathan

 

[BillESC]

Welcome.

What kind of budget is being considered? The 450 is quite limited in terms of color, beam spread and lacks motorized focus.

A new fixture that has entered the market called JACK has remote beam spread control via DMX from 1 degree to 46 degrees making a single fixture a Beam, Profile and Wash light. Offering 50,000 lux at 5 meters JACK has the punch needed to cut through your conventionals.

 

[techieman33]

The express is a horrible moving light board, without a new console your not going to be happy with moving lights. If you just want a wash I would look into just getting some LED pars those will be a lot cheaper and easier to control on an express. You'll want to make sure they have amber, white or both diodes, on top of the normal RGB.

 

[JChenault]

A couple of things to consider in making your choices. ( assuming you are talking about theatre / musicals here. Not rock and roll )

First of all - beam spread. Figure out where you think you will be placing the fixtures, and then how large a beam will you have at head height. Many LED units have very small beam angles and you probably will not be happy with coverage.
Second noise. Many movers have fans that are noisy. LED's are usually not as bad, but sometimes they are. You really don't want the show to be about the fan noise.
Third - control. As someone pointed out your current console will be hard to use with a mover. ( commercial note - we make a PC product that controls moving lights that you can use with your Express ).
Fourth. Color control and beam shaping. You want a way to shape the beam if at all possible. You want a way to get the pastel colors that a theatrical production demands.
Fifth - Do you want a fixture to blend in with your current inventory, or to 'Cut through' for specials, etc.


Re the Chauvet product. A quick look on the website makes me worry that you might not be happy with it.
The beam spread is quite narrow ( 19 degrees ). IF your grid is 20 feet above the deck, and you are trying to light standing on the floor from a 45 degree angle, you get about a 6 foot circle of light. Maybe OK for a special - not for an area light. You probably want something closer to 30 to 50 degrees.
The color choices seem to be a color wheel and no mention of the possibilities to change colors. For theatrical colors, a set of DJ colors are unlikely to be what you want. Indeed I would argue that you either want a scroller, or some kind of CMY mixing if you are using a white source. ( I am not a fan of LED's for lighting faces unless we are talking something in the Selador line - even then I am nervous )

You might want to consider using something like an Apollo Right Arm with a scroller. Put in a S4-Jr or ( even better ) a S4 with a 750 watt lamp, and you will have a fixture with color control, and it will match the color temperature of your current units. You don't get the fancy Gobos, etc that are quite nice to have available - but it is a nice combination ( if you want to adjust the size fo the beam while in the air, get a DMX scroller as well).

Good luck and have fun.

 

[Les]

You might want to consider using something like an Apollo Right Arm with a scroller. Put in a S4-Jr or ( even better ) a S4 with a 750 watt lamp, and you will have a fixture with color control, and it will match the color temperature of your current units. You don't get the fancy Gobos, etc that are quite nice to have available - but it is a nice combination ( if you want to adjust the size fo the beam while in the air, get a DMX scroller as well).

Good luck and have fun.

Good advice right here. In your budget range and with the console you have access to, I would also highly recommend DMX accessories to get the functionality that you're looking for. Around here, this is known as the Gafftaper Method.

 

[ShadowWolf]

BillESC - Thank you for the welcome.. They are getting a grant for some new standards that are comming down but I think it would be safe to say 1500 to 2000 a fixture max sadly.

techieman33 - Trust me I completely agree with you on the lighting board.. Sadly I was using the same model of board in High School well over 10 years ago, but you have to work with what's available when there isn't a budget to replace it. I'm hoping they might look at the ION line if there is enough budget to open up down the road. But since it isn't broken that's not too likely sadly enough. Understood on the diodes for LED Pars. Thank you.

JChenault - Yes I agree with you on the beam spread. I know on most of my JR's I tend to be right around the 50 Degree range. As far as fan noise, I had planned to get a company to come give demos for 1-2 products so we can figure out which would work. As far as the cut through it would be best for blended as we have 45 S4-JR and 8 S4-Sr's if I remember the inventory correctly off the top of my head. As far as the software I wouldn't mind talking more on the side to see if it might be a product that I could present to the faculty for consideration. We generally use the mccandless method, so the color scrollers might help in a few situations but I'm hoping for a more automated method to help free up some of the Jr's for other methods as I'm always about 10-20 instruments short of what I would like and 0 additional dimmers available.

 

[ShadowWolf]

Such as an Autoyoke or something similar perhaps? Sorry just trying to brainstorm mentally right now to see what all might work best for the venue on a tight budget but still get what would free up as much as possible while maintaining the lighting pools as we generally are running about 15 areas with light pools of about 6-8 feet in diameter.

Edit: Facepalm. Sorry just looked up the product and It looks like it would certainly assist us... With the above information do you think that with maintaining the light pools that we would want to get a few Sr's to put on these (or use existing inventory dependent on show) or that while maintaining focus that it would be able to help the lights serve as movable area lighting? Sorry I have next to no experience with Intelligents minus helping to hang them.

 

[BillESC]

You stated, "1500 to 2000" per fixture but didn't state how many fixtures. A round number for total budget will get our creative juices flowing.

 

[Brandofhawk]

If I were you, I'd shy away from buying movers... instead you should invest in some other dmx toys.
DMX Iris,
Moving mirrors
Rotators
Color Scrollers or CMY units

Check out this article on the Gafftaper Method. I think it makes some very great points.
Gafftaper Method - ControlBooth

 

[ShadowWolf]

You stated, "1500 to 2000" per fixture but didn't state how many fixtures. A round number for total budget will get our creative juices flowing.

Lol good pointmy good Sir. At that price I'd venture to guess no more then 2-3... The budget is extremely tight every year as sad as it is to say... I'm using a few altman fixtures that I'm sure have been around for a very very long time.

If I were you, I'd shy away from buying movers... instead you should invest in some other dmx toys.
DMX Iris,
Moving mirrors
Rotators
Color Scrollers or CMY units

Check out this article on the Gafftaper Method. I think it makes some very great points.
Gafftaper Method - ControlBooth

Any suggestions on a good mirror unit? I've debated this before myself I'm just not sure how smooth the movement is or how quiet the mirror rotator is, etc?

 

[BobHealey]

Fun thing to think about, and one I'm running into at the moment, is room dimensions. I might need to a pair of moving fixtures in a space where I think grid height is ~10-12 ft off the ground which restricts me in terms of sight lines. And due to the ultra short throw, anything narrower than a 6x9 isn't worth the effort to hang it.

 

[sk8rsdad]

Any suggestions on a good mirror unit? I've debated this before myself I'm just not sure how smooth the movement is or how quiet the mirror rotator is, etc?

There aren't a lot of choices out there. The Rosco I-Cue is probably the easiest to source. It is virtually silent and very quick. Moving mirror accessoriess don't typically need a fan, and moving a lightweight mirror requires a small motor. There are a few caveats with a moving mirror accessory though:

• the beam angle of the fixture is limited to around 25 degrees. Wider beam angles spill past the mirror.
• the range of motion is limited by the physics of bouncing a light off mirror mounted on an armature . It might not be possible to get the light to reach everywhere you might wish.
• the fixture needs to be pointed away from the place you are intending to light, sometimes inconveniently so.
• since the throw distance varies quite a bit over the range of motion, you may want to add a DMX iris to the fixture in order to control the size of the circle of light. It adds expense.

There's a place in the inventory for a moving mirror accessory, but it may not be cheaper than a dedicated moving light when all is said and done.

 

[ShadowWolf]

There aren't a lot of choices out there. The Rosco I-Cue is probably the easiest to source. It is virtually silent and very quick. Moving mirror accessoriess don't typically need a fan, and moving a lightweight mirror requires a small motor. There are a few caveats with a moving mirror accessory though:

• the beam angle of the fixture is limited to around 25 degrees. Wider beam angles spill past the mirror.
• the range of motion is limited by the physics of bouncing a light off mirror mounted on an armature . It might not be possible to get the light to reach everywhere you might wish.
• the fixture needs to be pointed away from the place you are intending to light, sometimes inconveniently so.
• since the throw distance varies quite a bit over the range of motion, you may want to add a DMX iris to the fixture in order to control the size of the circle of light. It adds expense.

There's a place in the inventory for a moving mirror accessory, but it may not be cheaper than a dedicated moving light when all is said and done.

Well what I'm thinking from this description is that I could put a few of these over the audience seating. Which would also hopefully alleviate the issue of the beam angle. (If an Image isn't allowed to be posted can a MOD please let me know as I didn't see any rule on it)

I attached a picture from a recent production to try and give you guys a better feel for the space and how things generally work out..

Again thank you everyone for helping educate me on this stuff and I apologize for the need to do so lol.

Edit : the back wall is about 4 feet bast the back wall on the lower level. the Stage Left wall is right near the right edge of the picture. And we normally don't use so much down lighting on a normal show.