syntax

[journeymanjohn]

I recently purchased a CD80 pack, and am window shopping consoles, but have a few questions about syntax. Frankly, I'm not exactly sure I fully understand the term. Would anyone care to elaborate??

It was my understanding that DMX is DMX, AMX is AMX, etc, but in my research I have read things that suggest that just because a board/console "speaks" DMX it may not necessarily function well with a dimmer that salso speaks DMX, and this has something to do with syntax.

I understand that in the mid to late 80's a DMX standard was adopted, but I am still assuming that there are possible problems with this syntax issue. Possibly I am mistaken.

As I am on a limited budget, putting this system together, I do not have the funds to make a mistake in my purchase and have to by another piece of equipment to allow my future board to communicate with my dimmers, even at the circa $1000 range.

Also have read a few things about different bit rates for DMX. Possibly this is to what they are refering to in "syntax"??

With my budget being what it is, I am looking at older used boards, and am concerned that this syntax may become an issue.

 

[cprted]

Syntax is how you talk to the console. DMX is the command protocol that lets your console talk to dimmers or whatever else.

 

[DaveySimps]

In Brief, DMX 512 can be thought of as the language all DMX 512 devices speak. There are some old archaic protocols out there, but, in general, any DMX 512 board should be able to speak to any DMX 512 device. This was the whole idea of adopting it as a standard.

You will need a converter to speak to the CD 80's with a DMX board. What is your budget for a board? There is a lot here on converting to and from DMX and boards. Do a search oon each for specifics on a board.

For me, syntax has always been the order you have to do thing on a board (ie. DIMMER AT CHANNEL ENTER), it has nothing to do with how DMX is outputted from the board.

I would default to any one here with more gray hear than I. They would be able to give you more first hand info on older gear.
~Dave

 

[rochem]

To elaborate a little on what cprted said, syntax is the command language you as the user use to type commands into the console. On ETC consoles it's basically some variation of [CHANNEL] [#] [AT] [%] for your most basic commands. Congo uses a different syntax, and Strand, Hog, and MA consoles all use slightly different syntaxes. DMX is the protocol which interprets those commands within the board and sends them off to the dimmers.

It wasn't very clear, but is $1000 your budget for a new board? You may have trouble finding something that's gonna last for that kind of money. You'll want to stay away from anything designed for DJs or small nightclub setups. Depending on your space and what you use it for, an Express might be best suited for you and your budget. UsedLighting.com has them ranging from $3k to $4k and upwards, depending on how many channels you need. If you can afford the extra cash, an Element would be best, although I don't have specific numbers for that - maybe in the $5-6k range? Any of those boards will be able to work with your CD80 dimmers via DMX.

 

[journeymanjohn]

OK, that makes it all clear. Syntax is how I would communicate, program, or operate the console, so it is not an issue to be oncerned with..as far as communicating with my dimmers.

No, I am not buying a new board. I know that is out of my budget. Used is definitely the way I am going. Have been tempted by a few Strand MX boards, a leprecon 1624/48 plus, and an LBX. Have yet to "pull the trigger" on any of em though. I would probably go woth the Lep, as it pretty much offers all I need, except I would prefer a keypad as opposed to the data wheel. The MX doesn't have a real cue stack, and the LBX... I think that is what I really want, but finding a functioning one of that age in good condition, with software, has proven difficult. Have seen a couple of em on Ebay in my budget. One I saw after the listing ended, that I would have outbid on, and another unfunctioning one, that the owner could not get working with my recommended fixes, so I would not bid. The LBX is a little large, but I beleive small enough for my purposes.

The express boards, and encores and such do not have an audio input to run my chases while I am setting up my next scene, bringing up a special, or taking a sip of my beer . But this really isn't a "help me pick a console" thread really. Although I am open to suggestions.

And my CD80 pack "IS" DMX compliant, so I will not need a converter.

The application is the local club tour for rythym/ blues, country, and classic rock bands. Will also occassionally be in a casino or two, and will want to patch to thier dimmers instead of using mine, and prefer to use my own board rather than adapt to adapt my programming to thiers. I will not be purchasing any movers, but would like the capabilty for a few,...just in case.

Thanks all. You have answered my question (again).

 

[Grog12]

No, I am not buying a new board. I know that is out of my budget. Used is definitely the way I am going. Have been tempted by a few Strand MX boards, a leprecon 1624/48 plus, and an LBX. Have yet to "pull the trigger" on any of em though. I would probably go woth the Lep, as it pretty much offers all I need, except I would prefer a keypad as opposed to the data wheel.

I'll be honest if you're going to have this board for a good long while, and are used to programing via keypad, then get a console that you can program via keypad.

I'm one of those people who uses 10-keys almost exclusivley while programming (especially editing) and boards with wheels and no 10-key can be exceptionally infuriating.

 

[journeymanjohn]

I'll be honest if you're going to have this board for a good long while, and are used to programing via keypad, then get a console that you can program via keypad.

I'm one of those people who uses 10-keys almost exclusivley while programming (especially editing) and boards with wheels and no 10-key can be exceptionally infuriating.

Yep, I agree. That's the main reason I didn't get the Lep 1624/48+. I was an inhouse LD at a private local theatre here many years ago, and remember the frustrations involved with that Lep 1500. It was hell to program/edit. I was constantly deleting/changing scenes i didn't wanna change. Thought it might be a bit easier with a monitor option, but then again really don't wanna have to set up a monitor in a small nightclub venue.

Also, it really doesn't have to be able to last a super long time, but want something that I can count on for a year or two. I am basicly just looking to build a system to get me back into the stage lighting scene, as I have been away and focusing on my "real job" for many years.

I am now considering the Teatronics Producer II that is listed on Ebay. Gotta go download the PDF manual and do some reading.

Any thoughts or comments on that model??

 

[shiben]

If your willing to cough up the few thousand bucks its gonna run u, I think the ETC element or Smartfade line would really fit the bill for you, and they are surprisingly inexpensive for what you get, although i really dont understand how the audio input thing works, and if either of those boards have that feature.

 

[Teatronics]

Teatronics makes a Producer lighting control console that puts out simultaneous AMX and DMX. The AMX output will drive your CD80 dimmer pack directly and the DMX is always available for future DMX devices.

There are other protocol converters out there that will convert DMX to AMX also. I believe Pathfinder is one.

There were some compatibility issues with early AMX but little to none with DMX. By the way one of the original controllers for the CD80 was the Mantrix.

Also some manufacturers will use the standard AMX or DMX control signal protocols but will put the signals out on different pins than the industry standard; AMX typically uses a 4 pin XLR (Strand also used a TYFL mini connector once) and I've even seen it done to the 5 pin XLR for DMX.

 

[Les]

Too bad you don't have an extra $500. There's a nice looking NSI Melange for $1,495 OBO with flight case on ebay right now.

 

[Footer]

CD80 Packs do still come in a DMX model. Most of them that are out there like the OP said is a DMX unit, so finding a console that speaks AMX is not an issue.

I have had issues with CD80 Packs and newer hardware. I had a beta version of the Strand Pallate and it gave the CD80 packs hell. They ran great with the express I had, it could have been an issue with the console. You bought yourself one of the most rock solid dimmers out there.

 

[dramatech]

There have been several folks that have stated that there are no compatability problems with any DMX devices speaking to each other. This is simply not true. DMX was created in 1986, and had a few timing changes in 1990. Some of the equipment built by Strand before 1990 have serious problems with sending a DMX signal that is stable enough for some of the newer equipment made by other manufactures. One solution is to use a DMX combiner, and only use one input. The Doug Fleenor combiners will accept the pre 1990 input and put out the DMX (USIT 1990). I have had some experience in this area. A lesser expensive solution is the use the Northlight 8 channel encoder with merge and only use the DMX input and DMX output.