Texas Making Laws Against Lighting Designers
- Thread starterDBFJohn
- Start date
sweet, time for me to get my electricians license and start going out for around 500+ a day, since i will be a certified lighting designer and i will get highered by no one b/c what church wants to pay a designer 500+ day. 
That's not the reason you won't get highered!and i will get highered by no one b/c what church wants to pay a designer 500+ day.
jmabray
Active Member
But that's the real problem with the bill. It's so vaguely written that it could be intrepreted by some AHJ as pertaining to theatrical lighting. A light plot with paperwork could be considered those "Plans and Specifications"
The other problem is that while the bill calls out that those people purporting to be "lighting designers" shall be liscensed under that code, there is nothing in that code that tells anyone how to judge as to whether or not that person is qualified.
Its a horribly written bill that was inserted on the fly and if it is going to be done (and I am convinced that this is not the last we will hear of something like this) it needs to be done correctly and not at the last moments of a legislative session....
The other problem is that while the bill calls out that those people purporting to be "lighting designers" shall be liscensed under that code, there is nothing in that code that tells anyone how to judge as to whether or not that person is qualified.
Its a horribly written bill that was inserted on the fly and if it is going to be done (and I am convinced that this is not the last we will hear of something like this) it needs to be done correctly and not at the last moments of a legislative session....
WestlakeTech
Active Member
As a Texan, let me say this much...
1. This bill is not likely to pass (partly on the basis of...)
2. A lot of bills are getting killed this session, and it'll be ending soon.
1. This bill is not likely to pass (partly on the basis of...)
2. A lot of bills are getting killed this session, and it'll be ending soon.
NickJones
Active Member
The challange as always is reading sections of one bill without the full bill and the context of how it fits in with the other legislation already in place. However I know from here in Canada that there are instances where theatre lighting designers, riggers and electricians have without realising it performed work that only a Professional Engineer can legally perform. I am not aware of an instance where a problem has occured. However when you are doing instals and designing electrical requirements and suspended loads and preparing plans etc for this the various Provincial Engineers Acts restrict this to Engineers. However once something is installed a thaetre lighting designer can move fixtures, do the patching etc. with no problems withing the limits of the installed electrical and rigging systems. The Apprenticeship acts also limit who can do that installation work to licenced trades working to engineers and architects drawings. However theatre technicians can maintain the lights, hang, focus etc. to meet the theatre LDs design.
Just a side note about this is that here in Canada if you choose to perform the work of an engineer without a licence then if everything goes without a problem you can be fined in court and if you continue you can be jailed for contempt. If your design fails then you can also be held liable for the full financial loss resulting from your work even if there is no contract between you and however suffered the loss. This is why engineers carry errors and ommissions insurance and also why engineers won't answer questions unless you are a client. The situation is different in the U.S.
Just a side note about this is that here in Canada if you choose to perform the work of an engineer without a licence then if everything goes without a problem you can be fined in court and if you continue you can be jailed for contempt. If your design fails then you can also be held liable for the full financial loss resulting from your work even if there is no contract between you and however suffered the loss. This is why engineers carry errors and ommissions insurance and also why engineers won't answer questions unless you are a client. The situation is different in the U.S.
Well said.
Also, based on news stories everyone has read, if they want to arrest and convict someone of something - anything, there's probably a law on the books that will allow them to do it.
waynehoskins
Active Member
I just realized I've been breaking Texas law for a couple of weeks now. I've been walking around with a pair of wire-cutters in my back pocket.
Anvilx
Active Member
Basic economics in a nutshell:
If you do the job right and don't mess up people will hire you. If you want more people to hirer you (more $$$) then you will do what you can to distinguish yourself.
If you don't do the job right, cost your employer more money, screw up, ect. Then people people won't want to hire you. And if someone wants to hire some one who does screw up then it is the employer's problem.
No big deal overall (as lighter side of it all in Texas being possibly more crazy than Illinois where I live or California,) hear the Gov. of that state wants to take their option from statehood of succeeding from the United States in becoming an indipendant nation again given how US policy has recently gone and polling says many in the state are for this.
Would think if this happens most designers would flee anyway. Otherwise, would love to see such news confrences that are held in the state in daylight only because nobody is available or willing to direct light on the politicians. This much less how many plays suddenly go dark in house lights only lighting the show and lamps say not being changed.
The above conversations of course say such a rule was changed and it won't happen but it's in a week or two of no design or designs by those "not qualified" legally speaking being shown, much less the TV broadcasts not being able to go on air because they were designed by x... that would quickly raise a voice and concern.
Topic fascinating for me.
Would think if this happens most designers would flee anyway. Otherwise, would love to see such news confrences that are held in the state in daylight only because nobody is available or willing to direct light on the politicians. This much less how many plays suddenly go dark in house lights only lighting the show and lamps say not being changed.
The above conversations of course say such a rule was changed and it won't happen but it's in a week or two of no design or designs by those "not qualified" legally speaking being shown, much less the TV broadcasts not being able to go on air because they were designed by x... that would quickly raise a voice and concern.
Topic fascinating for me.
quarterfront
Member
Yeah, man. Don't mess with Texas. People there are very sensitive, like delicate flowers. The slightest slight can cause them to become so overwhelmed that they'll retreat to their rooms and not come out for days....
Agreed. I have to say, at first glance, before any of the details filled in (when I made the comment Anvilx quoted) this looked like the sort of thing that might happen if a group of people who feel that they're better qualified to do a job lobby to have rules created that require that to do a job you have the qualifications that they have. I have a BA and 25 years of experience, but am I "qualified"? Well, not by the Water Buffalo lodge, or whoever the governing body for qualifications is, so... who knows, right? And in that situation, the question is, who's writing the rules?
What's the problem? I can think of a number of Lighting Designers from Texas that should be outlawed.
After reading the articles, it appears that one of the main (maybe only) organization that was taking the proposal to task was the IALD. By their website, it appears that their work involves architectural lighting, interior and exterior.
Are theatrical lighting designers typically members of IALD?
Joe
Are theatrical lighting designers typically members of IALD?
Joe
Perhaps IA if not AE as I think part of them but the actual stage designers union. More likely another lighting design organization something like IESNA which is a good group as a designer for lighting - no matter the specialty would be good to join, lots of good info from them and the "member discount" is worth it for stuff one could learn in being a member. This plus a feather for the resume. A group I want to join myself at some point.
Overall, lighting designers or specifiers should join or it would be good for them to study and qualify for as much as possible under the general design concepts for lighting design. While I don't design much any more, I do not just have some amount of stage lighting designs under the belt but also a few architectural type and or museum lighting designs under the belt. Once the overall concept of design is understood, architecture verses theater design is easy enough to often do better than most who don't have theater design training. At times a bit more work when figuring out illumination levels on surfaces for the proper amount of light to a specific area, or in more doing washing than spotting, ensuring proper color temperatures per design intent... still the same design is design type of thing and a field that is easy enough to work.
Heck, even if not designing so much these days, I would also not be compliant with this type of law as written and almost came to pass. Some club owner has a bunch of say MX-4's with MX-10's and wants them to be the same color temprature, (option of dialing down the MX-10's or up the MX-4's in color temperature) or say they want a long life trackspot lamp, as a in-state retailer for at least this cliant it would be against the law as written for me to as his lamp supplier specify a different lamp for him to use. He instead would have to go out of state for that type of help. That's kind of silly, my role is to help designers not get a fine for assisting them in getting done what they desire. Same with fixtures etc. in designers coming to see me to recommend a fixture for a need, short of the retailer knowing what products are available, we are talking about landscape designers knowing what's available on the market and how best to optimumly place them. Possible they could grasp lighting design, but often with help as with anyone else LD for the stage to architect in needing help at times.
Got a friend at work that's also working for a interior waterfall company in his off time. Has a huge like 40' long 30' high waterfall he wants to wash in light a RGB color change within the waterfall. Was thinking Philips MR-16 or another small LED strip light from them, I was thinking Fiber Optic or color lens low voltage MR-16 in advice for at least cost effectiveness. Given the size of the waterfall and only fourteen lamps per powersupply the Color Kinetics MR-16 fixtures would be out (Philips really does need to come out with bigger power supplies for these fixtures, believe it was something like 13x power supplies I quoted out just to make a 6' high twenty foot long "Green Day" sign with them.) But there is some variable lengths of small bar like wash type LED fixtures from that brand which would work assuming the waterfall had some straight line waterproof troughs in it. A bit more difficult to make a waterproof trough for the lights and cable in a custom waterfall especially with access to such equipment as opposed to individal lamps or pods of them for adjusting to the shape. Neither of us in Texas (the theater designer or I) would be qualified to help that waterfall company had there been such a law and the budget would have to be raised for someone with a certification to find the same problems we found in figuring this out - this especially without help from those not qualified.
Unfortunately while going fiber optic lighting will have been the best option - given the water and access to the fixtures in ease of changing lamps or power with water or data, there it seems are not so much yet wash type lighting fixtures available in such a architectural fiber optic type of fixture. Easy enough to run say 3/16" fiber optic cable out to the various sources and remotely power them up by way of color changing fiber optic source type fixtures. Very safe in the only power going to the lights would be in a closet somewhere and nothing to do with what's going on in the waterfall. Unfortunately not possible for a fiberoptic wash fixture sufficient yet at close range for a wash. Still that would be the best option and TBA someday or perhaps with an added lens might work. Wonder how many architects who didn't read "Lighting for Historic Buildings" would have thought of going fiber optic, this much less know about the Philips brand KC type fixtures sufficiently in charging more per design than some designer or supplier with experience with them. Heck just today I wired up a 28 lamp MR-16 display cabinet. I could probably do that given it was not me specifying what was used in the display cabinet. Granted the designer probably as concept for designing the cabinet and it's lighting will have possibly broken the law.
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