Vintage Lighting The end of an era: Altman retires the 360Q.

[BobHealey]

Altman should have made a data sheet for a 360L for April 1st

 

[JohnD]

Altman should have made a data sheet for a 360L for April 1st

That could have been cool, they could have featured the inclusion of marsala* emitters for those lush, warm tones.
* marsala is Pantones color of the year.

 

[derekleffew]

and was going through the random copies of Theatre Crafts magazine I have and couldn't find a single ad from Altman!

As I've said before, I entered lighting in the mid/late seventies, and don't think I'd even heard of Altman until the mid eighties.

It seems to me Altman wasn't concerned about its identity as a brand until at least the 1980s/90s. Many other companies (including Colortran and ETC) sold its fixtures under their own name. Thus many could have or are/were using Hub fixtures thinking they are Altman. Or anything generic/un-marked is likely Altman, but as you've discovered might be something else: Little Stage Lighting Company, Capitol Stage Lighting Co., L&E, LECO, and so on.

Even today, look at the "modern" 360Q pictured. The only place it says Altman is (probably) on the T-handles, and (probably) on a yoke sticker.

 

[theatricalmatt]

Definitely on the yoke sticker. Only on the T-handle if you never needed to replace on.

Is it actually time to say "goodbye" just yet? I think I'll still be seeing them around for another ten or twenty years.

 

[Dionysus]

From testing a S4 Fresnel against an ancient Colortran 213-202 6" Fresnel, I'm not sure it's really much of an improvement. The S4 is amazingly heavy, the quarter-turn fasteners that secure the gel clip are a pain, removing the lamp socket assembly from the body to change a lamp would be a lot of fun on a ladder, etc. etc. etc. I'll take the 65Q. My all-time favorite is the Electro-Controls 6" fresnel.

We have City Theatrical Barndoors permanently in our S4 Fresnels, so gels go into the barn door. Since there is NO WAY the barn door can come out, safeties are not always necessary on the barn door which is nice. Since the gel clip is never usually opened then the quarter-turn fasteners are just fine. Changing lamps is easy I find. All in all I don't mind the s4 Fresnel at all.

I agree I do like the old EC 6" Fresnels, and the Colortran fresnels in a lot of ways better. The Colortrans are nice to focus, the s4 focus beam adjust I don't like as much, same as the s4 zoom.

The Altmans were the fixture of choice on a budget a lot of the time, and still are.
I think we will be seeing the 360Q for a VERY long time. Look at how many Strand PATT fixtures (fixtures the 360Q was meant to replace!), and the like are still in service out there! I still get my hands on them unfortunately.

Then again no surprise the 360Q is discontinued. I wonder how many they were selling? Especially with groups selling used 360Qs cheap.

 

[AudJ]

Darn, 360q's WERE the only current fixtures in my room...

 

[STEVETERRY]

We have City Theatrical Barndoors permanently in our S4 Fresnels, so gels go into the barn door. Since there is NO WAY the barn door can come out, safeties are not always necessary on the barn door which is nice. Since the gel clip is never usually opened then the quarter-turn fasteners are just fine. Changing lamps is easy I find. All in all I don't mind the s4 Fresnel at all.

I agree I do like the old EC 6" Fresnels, and the Colortran fresnels in a lot of ways better. The Colortrans are nice to focus, the s4 focus beam adjust I don't like as much, same as the s4 zoom.

The Altmans were the fixture of choice on a budget a lot of the time, and still are.
I think we will be seeing the 360Q for a VERY long time. Look at how many Strand PATT fixtures (fixtures the 360Q was meant to replace!), and the like are still in service out there! I still get my hands on them unfortunately.

Then again no surprise the 360Q is discontinued. I wonder how many they were selling? Especially with groups selling used 360Qs cheap.

You make a very good point. One of the things that fueled the rapid adoption of the Source 4 in the New York market was the used sales price of the 360Q. Both BASH and Production Arts did quite well selling 360Q's for $119--the original dealer net for the fixture.

ST

 

[techieman33]

We have City Theatrical Barndoors permanently in our S4 Fresnels, so gels go into the barn door. Since there is NO WAY the barn door can come out, safeties are not always necessary on the barn door which is nice. Since the gel clip is never usually opened then the quarter-turn fasteners are just fine. Changing lamps is easy I find. All in all I don't mind the s4 Fresnel at all.

I agree I do like the old EC 6" Fresnels, and the Colortran fresnels in a lot of ways better. The Colortrans are nice to focus, the s4 focus beam adjust I don't like as much, same as the s4 zoom.

The Altmans were the fixture of choice on a budget a lot of the time, and still are.
I think we will be seeing the 360Q for a VERY long time. Look at how many Strand PATT fixtures (fixtures the 360Q was meant to replace!), and the like are still in service out there! I still get my hands on them unfortunately.

Then again no surprise the 360Q is discontinued. I wonder how many they were selling? Especially with groups selling used 360Qs cheap.

I prefer the strand fresnel lites over the colortrans, it might be nice to have a gel clip, but I've never had a gel frame or barn door fall out of one of the strands. Just takes a little forward thinking to make sure they are pointed in the right direction when you hag them.

 

[MNicolai]

The secret to the no-gel-clip conundrum is to take a binder clip and snap it onto the gel frame on the edge of the frame opposite the side without the gel clip. By doing this after you've got the gel frame inserted into the slot, the binder clip prevents the frame from being able to fall out of the slot.

 

[Les]

The secret to the no-gel-clip conundrum is to take a binder clip and snap it onto the gel frame on the edge of the frame opposite the side without the gel clip. By doing this after you've got the gel frame inserted into the slot, the binder clip prevents the frame from being able to fall out of the slot.

While we are talking hacks, I just benched 6 360Q 6x9's.
By opening the hinge at the gate assembly and visually inspecting the orientation of the lamp while adjusting the screws (fixture off and cold) sped up the process by a lot. That way at least I wasn't jamming the lamp against the reflector without knowing it.

 

[ship]

Mini S-4 Leko is not a great impressive thing for output, as with the JR' especially if you have a bad lamp in needing to take apart the fixture to get at. Was thinking all above the same on the 3.5Q especially once listed as E-12 mini-cand, but you can still get the G-9.5 and surprised they didn't re-list for GLA series lamp.

Parts for the 360Q/360 series you should still be able to get for a few years and they might extend that with demand. Altman is really good in years later still having parts. if not parts available, CB memters and others have stockpiles of parts and I'm even R&D with punch tools doing shutter handle fiber washers. Parts for these lights are a long time from being not able to get.

It's time in while this for years was the best brand of economic fixtures "my kindom for another Leko"! The fixture I dreamed of having even one of, or if I had them I could have done better. I finally own one now which isn't associated with the museum - took me 20 years, but I own a 6x9, the light I always wanted as opposed to a sports car in mid-life.

(thanks for Scenemaster60 in reminding us of the 70's concepts I will not have thought of - was a kid during that period.)

The 65Q... Design that is simple and hasn't before ETC tried to monkey with it, since the mid-1930's. Good in them going HPL lamp once the patent went away, interested to hear it's not as efficient in the standard Fresnel.

Back many years ago I had a discontinued HX-600 with a internal reflector in it. Totally out punched and did gobo's better than a S-4 in a 3.5Q light. Now that the HPL is not a licenced filament, I am waiting for the HPL type lamp filament to get matched up with an internal reflector. HPR 575/115 from Osram was a before it's time lamp - had the internal reflector that increased output by 15 to 20% but was stuck with a FLK/HX-600 filament instad of at least a GLC filament. Waiting at least on Lekos's for the reflector to be re-introduced to a lamp with the HPL filament. This completing the ellipse will boost output on the 360Q and S-4. And the perhaps original Philips GLA removable heat sink back to the market. In making a HPL lamp that has ability to go either G-9.5 or G-9.5HS (heat sink). That is possible for lamp now as opposed to liquid filled which is a xenon concept.

 

[Les]

Mini S-4 Leko is not a great impressive thing for output, as with the JR' especially if you have a bad lamp in needing to take apart the fixture to get at. Was thinking all above the same on the 3.5Q especially once listed as E-12 mini-cand, but you can still get the G-9.5 and surprised they didn't re-list for GLA series lamp.

Parts for the 360Q/360 series you should still be able to get for a few years and they might extend that with demand. Altman is really good in years later still having parts. if not parts available, CB memters and others have stockpiles of parts and I'm even R&D with punch tools doing shutter handle fiber washers. Parts for these lights are a long time from being not able to get.

It's time in while this for years was the best brand of economic fixtures "my kindom for another Leko"! The fixture I dreamed of having even one of, or if I had them I could have done better. I finally own one now which isn't associated with the museum - took me 20 years, but I own a 6x9, the light I always wanted as opposed to a sports car in mid-life.

...And the perhaps original Philips GLA removable heat sink back to the market. In making a HPL lamp that has ability to go either G-9.5 or G-9.5HS (heat sink). That is possible for lamp now as opposed to liquid filled which is a xenon concept.

And of course, eBay will always be a source of parts - even if you have to buy an entire fixture to get them. They're usually cheap enough.

I have a set of three hammertone 6x16's. Not my first choice in beamspread, but they have never been used and are "New Old Stock". Thought about getting rid of them but I'm now thinking I'll keep them.

I remember doing a large lamp order in high school - GLA's for our (terrible) SL's. I opened the box and see these heat sinks and think "crap, I ordered HPL's!". Didn't take me long to figure out the concept and now wish I had kept some of the removable sinks, whether or not they would have been useful. I wish they'd bring that series back. Especially with fixtures going "hybrid" these days.