Track system and barndoor hardware

[DaveSHS]

Hi Everyone,

I'm trying to come up with a system that will allow set pieces to slide on and off stage from the wings along a track. Bascially I'm trying to create a tounge and groove/wing and groove/chariot and pole (I'm not sure of the best term) system, but without tearing up my deck with grooves. I haven't looked into the specifics of it, but it seems like laying a second deck on top of my current one would be too expensive and leave me with a lot of material to store, so I am thinking of laying track on top of the deck. The tracks don't have to cross the stage or even protrude too far on, so I don't think it will be a trip hazard.

My best solution so far is to lay track on the deck and then another track on the grid directly above it. I would then connect the set pieces to both tracks and they would be rolled on and off by hands. My first question is, has anyone had success with a system like this one and do they have any advice? My second question, if it turns out that this is a practicle solution, does anyone have any advice on where to get the hardware and how much will it cost. I'm working on a high school budget, but it is a pretty decent high school budget. I don't need anything that will cary extreme weight, but I'm not willing to do anything that isn't up to standards and could compromise safety. Ideally, I could find something that could be assembled and taken appart relatively easily so we could remove and install the system for future shows if necessary.

Thanks for the help.

David

 

[BillESC]

Depending upon the set pieces, you may only need a top track. ADC's 280 track comes to mind.

 

[rsmentele]

I've done this a few times, using a top track (I used barn door track and dollies due to the fact the owner of the theater owned a farm supply store) and I also added two 'fingers' on the bottom of each piece going into a small groove in the floor to hold the flat plumb. But I know there are plenty of other top track solutions out there, rose brand comes to mind.

 

[kicknargel]

Pretty standard stuff, what you're trying to do. There are some homemade or barn-related options, but really what you're looking for is traveler track, same as your curtians run on. The major manufacturers are ADC and H&H. Contact any theatrical supply. Rose brand is probably the highest priced for this sort of thing. You'll need rated scenery carriers, which ain't cheap. The supplier should help you calculate how often you need to pick the track to the grid based on your load.

I agree that for flats you may not need a bottom track. If you do, you can probably just lay two strips of MDF with a small "knife" on the flat that fits the groove between the strips. Be very careful about trip hazard. A great solution is to lay your whole deck with 3/4" particle board. Then you can cut tracks as needed and replace sections as needed.

 

[IsThatMattPorr]

How did the barn door work out? I have been considering using this solution to move flats on and off stage. Our theater is on the first deck of a boat and thus has no fly loft. I dident want to deal with a track on the bottom, so i was just going to attack wagon brakes to the back of the flats and drill holes in the stage at the appropriate spots.

 

[rsmentele]

The barn door track worked great- we ended up using it for multiple shows- from 15' tall flats to small 7' doors. The one thing I would note though, is because its not really made for theater or quite environment use, it can be a little noisy, as the wheels on the carriers are steel- not coated in any rubber or plastic. But anytime we used the track it was during a black out or scene change, so it was a little more acceptable I guess.

 

[IsThatMattPorr]

that was the one thing i am worried about. I have a welder and so i was considering making my own carriers for it using small skateboard wheels or something of that nature.

 

[FatherMurphy]

Keep in mind that anything you build yourself that is capable of falling onto people will be all you for liability if an accident happens. You mentioned a boat - if you mean a cruise ship, then you'll want to include how things stay put in heavy seas in your design.

As far as top-track-only, and locking things in position, cane bolts or vertically mounted barrel bolts are probably a better thought than wagon brakes. The brakes work by lifting things slightly, and that will cause a flat to tip.

The steel track, if new, not rusty, and with lubricated wheels on the carriers, shouldn't be much noisier than regular traveler track, most of those have quite a bit of carrier rattle as they move. It all depends on your exact situation, how much weight, how fast, proximity to the audience, sound absorbing stuff nearby, set change music, etc.

 

[IsThatMattPorr]

Good point with the liability. I maybe should have been more specific. I am a trained professional welder and have been hired by theaters in the past to do custom welding, so I am fine with that end. The boat is permanently docked on a river, so while their wont be any high seas it does rise and fall with the water level and it is never quite level at any time, so I was planning on have the flats secured at all times.

I was thinking of using the smallest simple wagon brakes with holes drilled in the floor for the rod to go down into the same way a cane bolt would, I just thought they might be faster and easier to deploy. We do have music during scene changes to mask the noise, so that should help. thanks for the feedback.

 

[lwinters630]

Unistrut has a trolley system https://www.google.com/search?q=uni...s=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
They fit into the unistrut track and will have load rating for all the parts.

One other thought that comes to mind when hanging a flat is making sure the load is safely hung to the bottom of the flat. Even if it can not fly out, a solid rated connection should continue from top to bottom. If you are using wood flats consider running steel cable from top to bottom.

 

[IsThatMattPorr]

That unistrut trolley stuff is pretty cool. I dident know about that. thanks. Not a bad idea with the steel cable. One trick i need to decide on a way to do is I have adoor flat that needs to be used on this system and i was considering just welding the frame, but i dont have aTIG available so I would have to do it out of steel and even with thin steel it would be heavy.

 

[lwinters630]

it would be heavy.

At this point I need to strongly suggest that if you are not experienced with the proper rigging you seek professional help.
Any load needs to be rigged with safety in mind.

That said a door in a flat can work, I usually use a threshold in flats that move. If you are flying a door be sure to through bolt (not screws) hinges and hardware.

 

[kicknargel]

At this point I need to strongly suggest that if you are not experienced with the proper rigging you seek professional help.
Any load needs to be rigged with safety in mind.

He's not flying a door, just traveling it on a track. Proper rigging of the track and flats are still critical, but let's make sure we're talking about the same stuff.

I'm curious why we're searching so hard to re-invent a wheel (or a track). What disadvantage is there in standard traveler track? The track, hardware, fittings, are all purpose-built for exactly this use, with ratings and insurance to back it up. What does barn door track or unistrut have that ADC track doesn't? Is it that much cheaper?

BTW, if you build a flat with 16ga or 18ga 1" steel tube, the frame weight is less of a factor than the sheet goods. No need to go aluminum. Steel is lighter than wood for the same strength. Using steel does not automatically make things heavy.

 

[IsThatMattPorr]

The price is a factor for sure. From what i can find it looks like the cheapest I could do this setup with ADC is $700 compared to $250 for the same setup with the barn door track. Also I found one length of the barn door track stashed int he back of the theater a while back and that was the first thing that prompted this idea. Obviously somebody a while back had the idea to use it. Also I have welded a couple custom gates int he past and used this same track system so am familiar with it and know that it can easily support the weight. I think I am going to try and find some thin wall steel tube to make some flats.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I like the H&H because of the load ratings and engineering data behind it, along with the polyurethane tires and sealed ball bearing wheels. I recall up to a couple of hundred pounds per trolley rating.

For really heavy track, if beams and hoist trolleys don't work, Richards Wilcox makes great products for loads and precision --- which you pay for.

 

[MPowers]

For really heavy scenery I have installed the Triple E UniBeam. Its carriers are rated at 848# WWL and the track is rated up to 1,177# when supported at 39" (1m) intervals for point loads and roughly double that for UDL. For 2m support spacing, which I used, the loads are 583 point load and 1,166# for UDL. The Carriers are dead quiet and roll like a dream.

But, like Bill said, It ain't Cheap!

 

[kicknargel]

The price is a factor for sure. From what i can find it looks like the cheapest I could do this setup with ADC is $700 compared to $250 for the same setup with the barn door track. Also I found one length of the barn door track stashed int he back of the theater a while back and that was the first thing that prompted this idea. Obviously somebody a while back had the idea to use it. Also I have welded a couple custom gates int he past and used this same track system so am familiar with it and know that it can easily support the weight. I think I am going to try and find some thin wall steel tube to make some flats.

Fair enough on the price. Although, if you're working with MSRP pricing, contact a dealer before making a decision. You'll usually get a better deal. Also, remember that there is a big gap between "I know it can support the weight," and "The manufacturer certifies the rating for this use and has proper insurance to back it up."