Tracking question

[jagwirez]

I've only done lighting for a church, concert/theater style cues. I've been doing cue-only modes, but have been keeping the tracking in the back of my mind. I've tried tracking before, when I had less experience, and seemed to run into issues.

I'd like to try out tracking again, but have a question. What happens if I get to (for ex) cue 12 and have to jump back to cue 8 for whatever reason. Will the values in cue 12 track to cue 8, or will cue 8 have all the values from prior cues. This is assuming that no blocking is set. Thanks all.

 

[jglodeklights]

I believe in the past you have said you have an ION. They way the ION, and other consoles work, is that each cue is essentially its own packet of information about levels that it sends out to dimmers and fixtures upon hitting GO. There are essentially two modes of thought for consoles- Preset and Tracking. Preset, or Cue-Only programming comes from two-scene preset boards where each cue required the setting of levels for each fader, regardless of whether or not they were changing level from the previous cue. Failure to set the level on each fader would mean that it would be retaining the level from 2 cues prior. Maybe correct, likely not. In a modern electronic console, this means that each cue in the list will send out information about levels for each channel.

Tacking works quite differently. Tracking essentially works as if the console is only sending out new information, or changes. Say your base look has channel 1 at 50, 2 at 75 and 3 at Full, and you record this as cue 1. Cue 2 has 1 at 50, 2 at 75 and 3 is now at 50. Cue 3 has 1 at Full, 2 at 75 and 3 at 50. You now go back to cue 1 and change some levels. 1 is now at 60, 2 at 50 and 3 at OUT. Updating while in tracking mode will cause 1's changes to be made to Cues 1 and 2, 2 will change in all three cues, and 3 will only change in cue 1. The tracking stops when it encounters new information for a channel, more properly known as a move. It only goes forward in the cue list.

The ION is cool compared to older tracking consoles like the Express, in that it has a softkey called TRACE. When you type the command [UPDATE][CUE X][TRACE], your updates will apply both forwards and backwards as the console will TRACE backwards to when the move to the original level occurred. With this and plain old tracking, you must be careful about inserting block cues and using cue only when it is necessary to prevent changes from being tracked into cues where you do not wish them to. Another neat trick about the ION is you can tell it which cues to update and/or where to update from and to where.

Hope this helps, ETC also has some great educational videos on their site about this and LTP HTP etc.

 

[derekleffew]

Values in cue 12 will not track to cue 8. For that, you need to use trace with the appropriate console.

3. A feature, I believe exclusive to the ETC Eos/Ion, for editing multiple cues, similar to "track."

...Track versus trace. Track determines how changes should move FORWARD through the cue list. Track this change forward until you encounter a move instruction and stop. Trace determines how changes should move BACKWARD through the cue list. Trace this change back to the "source" of the move instruction. So, if you are in cue 5, adjust a light, realize it should be at that level through the whole scene... [Update] [Trace] [Enter]. The desk will look for the cue that was giving that light its current instruction and change the value there. The behavior moving forward through the cue list is based on track/cue only. ...

(EDIT: Posted simultaneously with the above.)

 

[JChenault]

The answer is "it depends on how the software is written". In my experience this is something that is not a clear consensus on what is the right thing to do. In the theatre you want to be able to jump to any cue and the state of the system should be what it should be if you had started at the first cue and hit the next button to get to the cue you want ( cue 8) in your case. This is what most theatre consoles that I have experience in do ( and it is how we designed our software).

I am not intimate with the ion, but I have to believe that this is such an obvious need that if it is not the default, then there is an easy way to "go to cue 8" instead of "execute the changes written in cue 8"

 

[jglodeklights]

The ION does in fact have a "Go To Cue" button. Going to cue will bring up the proper state. If you are sitting in the cue and have made changes, going to the cue will erase those changes. If you have updated, it will do nothing as you are already sitting in the cue proper.

 

[jagwirez]

Very good info everyone. I think I was confused on how the tracking actually works. I take it now that tracking is how the console records, not how it plays back, if that makes sense. Cue 8 will have any changes plus all the tracked data from cues 1-7. even if I jump back (go to cue) from cue 20, cue 8 will be exactly as I recorded starting from the beginning and will not have any changes from cue 20. Please correct me if that is wrong.

 

[Grog12]

I The ION is cool compared to older tracking consoles like the Express,.

The Express isn't a tracking console. Its a cue only console that has a tracking function. There's a huge world of difference. It records every value for every channel in every cue.

I take it now that tracking is how the console records, not how it plays back, if that makes sense. Cue 8 will have any changes plus all the tracked data from cues 1-7.

Exactly a tracking console only records changes to values. If for instance in cue 1 channel 5 is at 60 it will remain at 60 until you tell it to do otherwise in cue 8.

 

[jglodeklights]

The Express isn't a tracking console. Its a cue only console that has a tracking function. There's a huge world of difference. It records every value for every channel in every cue.


Exactly a tracking console only records changes to values. If for instance in cue 1 channel 5 is at 60 it will remain at 60 until you tell it to do otherwise in cue 8.

Ee gads, you're right, slip of the tongue based on how I usually utilize my theater's Express and ColorTran Encore and not having sat on either in a few months.

 

[jglodeklights]

Very good info everyone. I think I was confused on how the tracking actually works. I take it now that tracking is how the console records, not how it plays back, if that makes sense. Cue 8 will have any changes plus all the tracked data from cues 1-7. even if I jump back (go to cue) from cue 20, cue 8 will be exactly as I recorded starting from the beginning and will not have any changes from cue 20. Please correct me if that is wrong.

This is correct, unless you decided to perform a trace and your values traced back to cue 8 or before. This is somewhat difficult to do accidentally as trace is on the second page of soft keys when updating.

 

[sclausenETC]

I'm going to suggest to anyone wanting to understand their lighting console better, that you take a look at a white paper that Anne Valentino and I wrote some time ago. It explains a lot of the concepts in this thread...

http://www.etcconnect.com/img/whitepapers/White_Paper_Control_Philosophy_revA.pdf

Thanks -

Sarah

 

[chausman]

How has Bobblehead Fred not made it to this thread yet?

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[Grog12]

I'm going to suggest to anyone wanting to understand their lighting console better, that you take a look at a white paper that Anne Valentino and I wrote some time ago. It explains a lot of the concepts in this thread...

http://www.etcconnect.com/img/whitepapers/White_Paper_Control_Philosophy_revA.pdf

Thanks -

Sarah

Along with ETC's I'll point you to our own Cue Tracking - ControlBooth and this thread from 2008 http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting/10514-lighting-console-basics.html#post116430 (both of which also point you back to Sarah's link.).