Control/Dimming Two-Scene Preset with Strand 300???

[0d085d]

Hi,

My theatre uses a Strand 300 console with 24 submasters (two sets of twelve). I've been trying to set it up so that I can set up a scene with the top row of submasters, set up another scene on the bottom row and fade between them.

I gather that there is a two-scene preset mode: [2 SCENE 0 SUB] and [2 SCENE 24 SUB]. When I use [2 SCENE 24 SUB] the desk appears to act as normal. I fiddle with the X1 playback faders and the red and green lights change but they don't appear to have any effect on which lights are actually on.

If I use [2 SCENE 0 SUB] I get the effect that I want but the submasters become channel faders: Sub 1 controls channel 1 and so on.

I've checked the user manual for the console but I still can't get it to work.

Anyone got any ideas as to how I can get the [2 SCENE 0 SUB] effect whilst still using the submasters I've set up?

Any help greatly appreciated.

0d085d

 

[cprted]

I've never been behind a Strand 300 (I'm in die-hard ETC country), but I did spend a few hours behind a Strand 200 last night. Does the 300 have the Hold feature? If so, you should be able to freeze the onstage look by pressing Hold and then pulling the A/B faders down. From there you should be able to reset your subs without affecting what is onstage. When the time comes, push the A/B faders back to the top for your new look. Repeat as necessary. Unless the 300 doesn't have that feature ...

 

[0d085d]

Thanks for the quick reply:

I don't think the 300 does have a hold feature - but it's certainly a good idea. I think that's what the [2 SCENE 24 SUB] is supposed to do, but I can't for the life of me get it to work.

0d085d

 

[derekleffew]

Now I've only once ever seen a Strand 300, just long enough to say "get that out of my way so I can put my HogII there," but...

...Anyone got any ideas as to how I can get the [2 SCENE 0 SUB] effect whilst still using the submasters I've set up?

It would appear your only alternative is to patch your show into 12 control channels.

On all consoles, from ANY manufacturer [except SteveB's (recently-retired!) ETC Emphasis with "SuperMasters"] Channel Faders have very different functionality than Submasters.

 

[icewolf08]

I don't think that there is a way for you to configure the console to do what you want. I also don't think that this is limited to the Strand 300. There are not any consoles that i know of that will let you run two scene preset and have your scenes be submasters as opposed to channel faders.

You could create the operational mode you are looking for by patching all the dimmers that you have in each sub to one channel. So if Sub 1 controlled channels 2, 4, 6 and those channels had dimmers 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, and 22 patched to them, you could just patch all those dimmers to channel 1 and then not use subs at all.

I suppose my real question is why you would want to do this. You have a console that is amazingly simple to use and relatively powerful. Why not just record all your cues and then play them back with the GO button?

 

[0d085d]

Sadly the channel faders only reach up to channel 12, all of which are behind the stage pointing at the audience. The theatre has a good 100 lights which I use for this performance anyway.

Having read the console manual again I reckon that the X1 playback faders contain some version of the hold feature. This is the bit which I can't get to work though.

I've attached the page with the only two mentions of 'hold feature' on it.

Many thanks,

0d085d

 

[0d085d]

icewolf08:

Thanks for the reply, I suppose you're right - I'm not going to get the exact effect I was looking for. I'm still confused as to why I can't get [2 SCENE 24 SUB] or even [1 SCENE 24 SUB] to work. I've tried the examples in the manual but the X1 playback faders don't appear to have any effect. When I move the submasters the lights come on irrespective of the position of the faders.

I normally do use cues, but this performance is a little more ad hoc and I need more control over the timing as what happens when on stage varies drastically.

0d085d

 

[icewolf08]

icewolf08:

Thanks for the reply, I suppose you're right - I'm not going to get the exact effect I was looking for. I'm still confused as to why I can't get [2 SCENE 24 SUB] or even [1 SCENE 24 SUB] to work. I've tried the examples in the manual but the X1 playback faders don't appear to have any effect. When I move the submasters the lights come on irrespective of the position of the faders.

I normally do use cues, but this performance is a little more ad hoc and I need more control over the timing as what happens when on stage varies drastically.

0d085d

The scene modes don't relate to submasters. This kinda goes back to the definition of a submaster. Submasters control a group of channels and the only thing that takes precedence over a submaster is a grand master.

The 2 scene with 24 subs means that you have access to 24 subs and your channels operate in 2 scene mode.

Another option is to see if anyone is selling off some of the additional fader panels for the 300 so that you can get more channel control.

I assume that you know that even with a programmed cue stack you can run manual fades and every time you complete a fade the console will load the next cue for manual fade. Then you have the same timing control as you would on a two scene preset and the same tactile control of running the faders.

 

[0d085d]

Okay, I kind-of see what you're saying...

So when I move the X1 playback faders what does that actually do?

 

[icewolf08]

Okay, I kind-of see what you're saying...

So when I move the X1 playback faders what does that actually do?

When? In two scene mode it switches between the scene on the top and the scene on the bottom, thus why your faders act as channels not subs. This should be the same as any preset desk. If you have a sub up, it won't be affected by the positions of the X1 fader pair as it is a higher priority function.

In the standard cue playback mode, if you set the faders to manual then the faders just fade from one cue to the next in the stack. One of the faders controls the upfade of the new cue and the other, the downfade of the current cue.

 

[0d085d]

Ah, clever. What about in one scene mode? Would that have anything close to the effect I wanted?

Thanks for all your help so far - this is becoming clearer all the time.

0d085d

 

[icewolf08]

Ah, clever. What about in one scene mode? Would that have anything close to the effect I wanted?

Thanks for all your help so far - this is becoming clearer all the time.

0d085d

Single scene mode won't do it either. I don't thing there is any mode that will let you fade submasters using the X1 or X2 faders.

 

[0d085d]

Ah, right. I may just have to do it manually then. I may need another hand or two though...

Thanks ever so much for your help.

0d085d

 

[mstaylor]

It was asked earlier in the thread, why don't you record cues either as faders or subs and write a cue time, then hit go?

 

[SteveB]

OK, I'll chime in, as per instructions from the always helpful Derek

And I'll state right out that I have no idea how a 300 works, even though I used one a year ago and mostly liked it.

In general, every console I've encountered that has "2 scene" capability, is configured for the faders to control channels, not submasters, while in 2 or single scene mode. Thus I would doubt you can do what you want on a 300.

In theory, you can do this on an ETC Insight with an Emphasis server, as Emphasis allows a function called Supermasters, that are submasters that can selectively control other submasters. Thus with an Insight and Emphasis, you can make sub 73 be a supermaster for subs 1-36, with sub 74 supermastering subs 37 thru 72, in essence, what you want the 300 to do.

This is BTW, something I've asked ETC to get operational for the Ion series, as among other useful fuctions, it allows greater control of the 300 faders/submaster that can be run on an Ion. Exactly HOW you are currently supposed to actually operate all those manual faders is lost to me and it's a HUGE desk. Anne V. at ETC tells me they are considering some form of additional fader controls in a later release.

So maybe somewhere down the road think about replacing your 300 with an Ion.

Steve B.

 

[rschwimmer]

No features to do this.

It sounds like the outlined scenario is appropriate for one of two approaches…

• Program cues.
• Change your patching assignment so that 2 scene preset gives you what you want.

Also you should remember that when using 2 scene preset AND cues, you should go into the REPORT > ADV SETUP > SHOW SETUP and switch from one playback to two so that the left set will be the A/B masters and the right set will run cues.

 

[derekleffew]

...Another option is to see if anyone is selling off some of the additional fader panels for the 300 so that you can get more channel control. ...

Randy (or others with Strand300 experience), mostly-hypothetical question:

I pointed the OP to a used 300 on one of the used equipment sites advertised for a very low price because it had software issues, but did had five or six groups of 24 sliders. How do the "channel fader wings" connect, and is it possible to take fader panels from a non-working console and add them to the OP's? Would one have to "buy additional channels" or anything?

 

[Darthrob13]

Short answer is that it isn't a Channels issue as there minimum channel count is 100 (really 300 but don't get me started on that....).

The process for connecting them is quite painless....hook them together using VERY short CAT5 cables. Then use the mapping feature that I couldn't remember the exact location of to tell each tile which group of sliders it is to have.

If the user wants more than 24 subs though, it gets a little more difficult. The console needs a new password to get that configuration. Patrick or Randy would be the place to start if this was needed.

R

 

[rschwimmer]

Short answer is that it isn't a Channels issue as there minimum channel count is 100 (really 300 but don't get me started on that....).

The process for connecting them is quite painless....hook them together using VERY short CAT5 cables. Then use the mapping feature that I couldn't remember the exact location of to tell each tile which group of sliders it is to have.

If the user wants more than 24 subs though, it gets a little more difficult. The console needs a new password to get that configuration. Patrick or Randy would be the place to start if this was needed.

R

YEAH, What Rob said!