What load (in watts of lighting) can a 32amps industrial socket bear ?

[FMEng]

When I said 10 I meant 10 amps a 1000w par as it makes it easier to deal with whole numbers and to not overload. So to give you a simple answer 3 1000w par64s. It wasn't meant to be humor just forgot to put amps after the 10.

Amiers seems overlooking that the OP is not in North America. He has 240 V line to neutral voltage and 240 V lamps and other loads.

I also think Stonehedge isn't understanding that there are various worldwide standards, that make his question confusing for most of us. My guess is that he is also miss-using the term "phase." Neutral and earth (ground) are not phases. Assuming you are in the UK, you would measure 240 V between any line/phase to neutral/earth, and 415 V between any two phases. Since I doubt any stage lighting has 415 V lamps, we're talking about a single-phase circuit here.

 

[danTt]

Amiers that's only true on 120volt power. He's on 240.

 

[Amiers]

You are overlooking that the OP is not in North America. He has 240 V line to neutral voltage and 240 V lamps and other loads.

Well I think I will stop putting my foot in my mouth tonight

 

[stonehedge99]

Watt's law holds true no matter which country you are in:

P = E x I

where P = power in Watts, E = Volts, I = current in Amps

So in my case power in watts can be = 240v x 32a. Which means power in watts drawn can be 7680 watts. So i can safely put 6 par cans ? Then why is the Amiers telling me only 3 units can be put. No disrespect to any post though. Just trying to figure out.

On a side note, i did run 5 fixtures on one of the 32amp sockets. The fixtures were dmx fresnels but 1200w HMI bulb fixtures + a little more consumption for the actual motors and circuits inside, it must be consuming about 1300watts at least. Ran 5 of these on one socket for a 2 hr show. Had one more such line with 5 more units running on the 2nd 32amp socket. The 3rd 32amp socket ran 6 x 575w moving heads (in reality a 13 motor 575w moving head consumes about 900w each ?). The distro also has 6 x 15amp sockets out of which i ran 2 x 1500w smoke machines and some computers and my entire pa system of 1500rms.

 

[stonehedge99]

Guys i respect all of your answers. Just trying to work out my safe limits. Kindly dont take offence for any electrical naiveness perceived.

 

[stonehedge99]

Amiers seems overlooking that the OP is not in North America. He has 240 V line to neutral voltage and 240 V lamps and other loads.

I also think Stonehedge isn't understanding that there are various worldwide standards, that make his question confusing for most of us. My guess is that he is also miss-using the term "phase." Neutral and earth (ground) are not phases. Assuming you are in the UK, you would measure 240 V between any line/phase to neutral/earth, and 415 V between any two phases. Since I doubt any stage lighting has 415 V lamps, we're talking about a single-phase circuit here.

Hi FM,

Everything is 240v in my country. Everything in south asia is mostly 240v here. About phase, though im no expert compared to you guys, i know its 3 separate power phases and then comes neutral and ground. I do know that neatural and earth complete the loop. The entire distro uses 3 phase, this im sure of, because three separate colors of cabling was used for each PHASE and 2 other colors were used for neutral and ground. Also the distro has 3 seperate PHASE leds to signify which phases are active. Also it was tested in front of me, showing how when 1 phase fails to turn the rotary switch and share from the other 2 phases.

The show i mentioned above, the power van confirmed 3 phase and wired it for 3 phase and demonstrated the same on the distro. The 5 leads which we gave them to hook to the distro is a 10sqmm 5 core cable having NEURAL, EARTH, and then 3 COLORS for each phase. If i remember right its RGY or RGB.

 

[JD]

32 X 3 X 240 = 23,040 gross watts, less any equipment de-rate. On the surface, a balanced load could handle 7 pars per leg with a little to spare. Using the 80% rule, 18,432 watts continuous duty. (18 total pars, 6 per leg.) Here's the thing; There may be other factors that limit your load to less than this. That phase sharing switch would sure be one! If you lost a phase, you are suddenly down to 32 X 2 X 240 = 15,360 (80% = 12,228) and you would have some potential mechanical problems with rotation on the generator itself do to extreme imbalance in the windings which would probably limit you even more.

There is also something wrong with the phase switch concept: If you lost a phase, "Phase sharing" the lost phase across the other two phases would require dividing up the load that was on that phase. Since that load would be coming in via one conductor, I do not see how that could be done on the generator end. Maybe it's time for some more information about this generator and some pictures.

 

[FMEng]

32 X 3 X 240 = 23,040 gross watts, less any equipment de-rate. On the surface, a balanced load could handle 7 pars per leg with a little to spare. Using the 80% rule, 18,432 watts continuous duty. (18 total pars, 6 per leg.) Here's the thing; There may be other factors that limit your load to less than this. That phase sharing switch would sure be one! If you lost a phase, you are suddenly down to 32 X 2 X 240 = 15,360 (80% = 12,228) and you would have some potential mechanical problems with rotation on the generator itself do to extreme imbalance in the windings which would probably limit you even more.

There is also something wrong with the phase switch concept: If you lost a phase, "Phase sharing" the lost phase across the other two phases would require dividing up the load that was on that phase. Since that load would be coming in via one conductor, I do not see how that could be done on the generator end. Maybe it's time for some more information about this generator and some pictures.

I think his branch circuit is single phase, as he described it as being 3 pins, which would be hot, neutral, and earth (ground). The switch would select which of the three phases is routed to the hot wire of the receptacle.

 

[JD]

I think his branch circuit is single phase, as he described it as being 3 pins, which would be hot, neutral, and earth (ground). The switch would select which of the three phases is routed to the hot wire of the receptacle.

And yet:

Im assuming those are 5 pin sockets now because all my wiring which im sure of is 5 core cable. The plugs which hook into the 6 sockets have 4sqmm 5 core cable leading out of the plug. So i assume the sockets are all 5 pin ?

I have to agree with FMEng above as there is also the reference to six connectors on the generator, each 32 amp. In my mind, each phase produces 64 amps and feeds two 32 amp receptacles. This would be consistent with the six receptacles, and a switch could be used to move receptacles around so that if a phase is lost, those two could then be split onto the remaining phases.
Using this Assumption each output is single phase HNG and can power 7 PARs at 1000 watts / 240v for short periods, and 6 PARs continuous duty.

 

[stonehedge99]

And yet:

I have to agree with FMEng above as there is also the reference to six connectors on the generator, each 32 amp. In my mind, each phase produces 64 amps and feeds two 32 amp receptacles. This would be consistent with the six receptacles, and a switch could be used to move receptacles around so that if a phase is lost, those two could then be split onto the remaining phases.
Using this Assumption each output is single phase HNG and can power 7 PARs at 1000 watts / 240v for short periods, and 6 PARs continuous duty.

Hi, Its not six connectors to the generator van. Its a 5 core lead wire that we hand the van guy and he connects the genset to that. That 5 core cable leads into our distro thru a 64amp industrial plug and socket. Then the final output on the distro is 6 nos of 32 amp sockets. This was chosen by me at the time they made the distro (yes it was custom made for me), they asked me how many outputs i would want on the front and i said 6 depending on my stage needs. There was calculation that went into that. If asked for 8 outputs they would have given me 8.

The rest of the hi end calculations go over my head, but i think its safe to assume most of you recommend and average of 6-7. So going with the safe number would be 6 pars out of one socket. Also conducive to this decision is the fact that i ran about 6000watts of lighting on each socket for a show already.

Now i have a dmx dimmer pack (to control my pars by dmx) rated at 24kv (6 channel x 4kv each). I was planning to run 3 pars each on 4 of the dimmer pack 4kv outs. so a total of 12 par cans. The dimmer pack has 3 phase power input by screw clip type connectors. So to run a total load of 12000watts to the dimmer pack can i take output from two 32amp sockets and combine them together and connect them to the leads ? I mean can a device take power from two 32a sockets simultaneously, probably 2 32a plugs jacked in, and then their cable wire leads twisted together or something and connected into the dimmer pack ? Will this arm the dimmer pack to draw 12000watts simultaneously ?

 

[Chris15]

So to run a total load of 12000watts to the dimmer pack can i take output from two 32amp sockets and combine them together and connect them to the leads ? I mean can a device take power from two 32a sockets simultaneously, probably 2 32a plugs jacked in, and then their cable wire leads twisted together or something and connected into the dimmer pack ? Will this arm the dimmer pack to draw 12000watts simultaneously ?

This is an extremely unwise idea.
If for some reason, only one of the plugs gets plugged in, then the other one has 415V on exposed pins for someone to accidentally touch...

Can you give us some more info on the dimmer pack?
Does it have a 3 phase input?

I'm a little bit curious on your choice of connecting to the dimmer. Were it me, I'd connect 2 PARs to each of the 6 channels. That should spread the load evenly across the phases assuming it is 3 phase.

If three phase you'd be presenting a load of 4kW, so about 17 amps per phase.

Maybe it would be easier for us to get our heads around this all with some photos? The distribution box and the dimmer pack especially...

 

[VCTMike]

It seems the OP is short of the necessary skills to be attempting this power problem on their own. Perhaps an onsite expert should be consulted to hopefully prevent us from reading about an incident in the future which could have been avoided......jus' sayin'

 

[stonehedge99]

It seems the OP is short of the necessary skills to be attempting this power problem on their own. Perhaps an onsite expert should be consulted to hopefully prevent us from reading about an incident in the future which could have been avoided......jus' sayin'

Oh god, here we go again.

Im not attempting this on my own. I will be getting an electrician to do it. Yet i wanted to know from people with stage experience as to which route i can take. The electrician has no experience in stage lighting. If you believe otherwise then your relegating yourself to a basic electrician, which even i will disagree with.

Your not my insurance company so please dont be so dramatic, im across the globe in south asia and you wont read about any incident even if i blew up the whole theater. You and your 'onsite' expert , in my country there is no such expert, and im an expert at knowing that. Your hi tech suggestions will not work in my country.

I get it that 6 pars will run safely, and this i know is safe because ive done it and its proved to work. So ill now end participating in this thread because the 'take diversion' post just happened and from now its all downhill.

 

[DuckJordan]

Stonehedge, you have to realize that actually there are experts all over the world. Electricity is also just electricity. Doesn't matter if its turning on a light or running a microwave it acts the same way. The fact that you can't even tell us the basics tells me at least that you aren't qualified to worry about anything other than plugging in what someone else tells you. This isn't a jab or an attempt to be offensive its just a fact. Read up on how electricity works. Watch some educational lectures on theatrical dimmers. Getting a step by step process only works in certain applications and generally electricity isn't one of them.

 

[gafftaper]

Alright everybody calm down a bit. Yes we are talking about a dangerous amount of power. However, Stonehedge is an adult asking for advice in understanding the electrical theory so that he can have an educated conversation with his electrician. He's not a 12 year old asking if he can shove the blue wire into the red socket. There's nothing wrong with teaching someone about electricity here. There's a big difference between teaching how to use Ohm's law, and how to connect a 400 AMP company switch. Stonehedge is posting from a country that isn't exactly known for its adherence to the NEC. So getting safe electrical theory here from a source he can trust will help keep him and his show safe. We are an educational forum, telling someone to go somewhere else to learn what can be taught here isn't what we do.

Let's all play nice and help our brothers out.

 

[jhochb]

Good Morning Amiers
Your reasoning is sound but your math is for the US. 8.33A rounding to 10A
The OP is in the land of 240V 50hz where a 1K pulls 4.15A rounded to 5A
So across the pond 6 fixtures is safe.

 

[stonehedge99]

Alright everybody calm down a bit. Yes we are talking about a dangerous amount of power. However, Stonehedge is an adult asking for advice in understanding the electrical theory so that he can have an educated conversation with his electrician. He's not a 12 year old asking if he can shove the blue wire into the red socket. There's nothing wrong with teaching someone about electricity here. There's a big difference in teaching how to use Ohms law and how to connect a 400 AMP company switch. Stonehedge is posting from a country that isn't exactly known for it's adherence to the NEC. So getting safe electrical theory here from a source he can trust will help keep him and his show safe. We are an educational forum, telling someone to go somewhere else to learn what can be taught here isn't what we do.

Let's all play nice and help our brothers out.

I cant thank you enough for understanding PRECISELY what help i was looking for. You spelled it out better and in fewer words than me. I wish more members here had your attitude to help.

I feel bad to say so, but its true that i am from a country where there are no such standards and amenities and not a single electrician (even the ones who do the electrical work for big factories etc are educated in that line) they just learn the basics from someone and start in that line of work. If at all i get a guy who's studied some form of electrical study their costs would be such that i simply cant afford him.

Members need to be more supportive and less paranoid. Much good can come out of such support. In fact i remember before i bought a set of 10 moving heads. I asked here and found out how to solder the dmx pins with no experience. A few kind members showed me how and i did it myself. And guess what. For a first time attempt from a person who has never done such work and never soldered before. All the dmx cables worked perfectly for the entire daisy chain. We did it. It ran 2 large shows successfully.

Like gafftaper says, i will enlist a proper experienced electrician to implement the actual connections. But i need to have some knowledge of what to expect before i can guide him than me trying to guide him with zero knowledge. Even though your not a mechanic don't you try to learn a few things you can do to check the car your going to buy. You rev it, you peep under the hood, you try whatever best you can to know your doing your best to get it right. The rest is in gods hands.

Thanks to all who helped and to the sceptical ones, no hard feelings, but please try to help with a little more optimism, else you would scare off people like me who need help and we'd maybe even end up ruining everything. Frankly speaking, i did those 2 large shows and made such a neat distro box etc on my own and guiding the electrician purely based on the inputs members here gave me. I also hooked up my 10 moving heads and smoke machines and color scrollers all with online help and the show was for a 1000 member audience.

 

[Amiers]

Good Morning Amiers
Your reasoning is sound but your math is for the US. 8.33A rounding to 10A
The OP is in the land of 240V 50hz where a 1K pulls 4.15A rounded to 5A
So across the pond 6 fixtures is safe.

Yeah I saw that after the fact.

 

[Ric]

..and it depends on the actual rating on the PAR lamp. In Australia we have 2 kinds available 110V 1000W, and 240V 1000W.
You would have 2 of 110v 1000W units in series on a 240v circuit, in order to not overload them.