What plug is this?

soundtech193746

Active Member
I'm currently working in an older high school for a theatre production we are doing. (Boo!! The sound system got upgraded). Anyways, i'm not sure what this plug (Image Attached) is. I've done a little bit of research and it seems like it is connected to ETC SmartPack dimmers. For reference, we are running ETC Express 24/48. I also think the "Panic" buttons are SmartLink Button Stations. Anyone know what the whole purpose of this is? There is DATA INPUT and ETC Link around the same area (image also attached)
 

Attachments

  • junk2.jpeg
    junk2.jpeg
    107.1 KB · Views: 561
  • junk1.jpeg
    junk1.jpeg
    111.9 KB · Views: 534
Unplug it and look but it looks like the second picture should just be a 3 or 5 pin dmx and the etc link if I recall is 6 pin
 
Yea, need to see the connector end. The shell of the first could be any number of screw or bayonet connectors, but the pinout will tell the tale.
 
I'm currently working in an older high school for a theatre production we are doing. (Boo!! The sound system got upgraded). Anyways, i'm not sure what this plug (Image Attached) is. I've done a little bit of research and it seems like it is connected to ETC SmartPack dimmers. For reference, we are running ETC Express 24/48. I also think the "Panic" buttons are SmartLink Button Stations. Anyone know what the whole purpose of this is? There is DATA INPUT and ETC Link around the same area (image also attached)
@baileypl If, when, you meet 6 pin XLR style connectors, realize there are two, non-intermateable, formats of six contact connectors: There is the original Cannon 6 pin and the newer Switchcraft 6 pin. ClearCom standardized on the Switchcraft variation for all of their 6 contact applications. The two formats, Cannon and Switchcraft, are NOT compatible / intermateable when it comes their 6 contact connectors. Neutrik, clever folk that they are, offer 6 contact XLR style connectors in BOTH formats.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
If, when, you meet 6 pin XLR style connectors, realize there are two, non-intermateable, formats of six contact connectors: There is the original Cannon 6 pin and the newer Switchcraft 6 pin. ClearCom standardized on the Switchcraft variation for all of their 6 contact applications. The two formats, Cannon and Switchcraft, are NOT compatible / intermateable when it comes their 6 contact connectors. Neutrik, clever folk that they are, offer 6 contact XLR style connectors in BOTH formats.
So which does the ETCLink use, @RonHebbard ?
We keep that information cleverly concealed in the wiki entry https://www.controlbooth.com/threads/connectors-xlr.13598/ .

6-pin:
(Note that there are TWO non-compatible pin configurations of 6-pin connectors. See Why does my 6-pin XLR not fit into the Neutrik 6-pin XLR? from Neutrik's site for explanation/information.)
Some two-channel intercom systems
ETC wired RFUs for Express(ion) and Obsession use the Switchcraft-style, gray-insert, "symmetrical" 6-pin XLR connectors (what Neutrik refers to as "non-standard").
ETCLink protocol for dimmer feedback, (same as above).
 
Are these plugging stations in the booth ?

The Portable connection looks like an older legacy Unison station. It doesn’t look exactly like my 13 year old Unison LCD portable, but it’s close. This port allows whatever portable station to control the “architectural”part of the lighting system, typical would be house lights, maybe work lights, etc...

The Data Input is likely 5 pin DMX, so would be where the console plugs to get data to the dimmers. The Link connection sent feedback from the dimmer rack(s) to the Express and could give you info on dimmers whose breakers had tripped. If you have the Advanced Feature dimmers, you could get load data, and that would tell you if you had blown a lamp.
 
Are these plugging stations in the booth ?

The Portable connection looks like an older legacy Unison station. It doesn’t look exactly like my 13 year old Unison LCD portable, but it’s close. This port allows whatever portable station to control the “architectural”part of the lighting system, typical would be house lights, maybe work lights, etc...

The Data Input is likely 5 pin DMX, so would be where the console plugs to get data to the dimmers. The Link connection sent feedback from the dimmer rack(s) to the Express and could give you info on dimmers whose breakers had tripped. If you have the Advanced Feature dimmers, you could get load data, and that would tell you if you had blown a lamp.

What is the easiest possible way to know if a dimmer/braker has tripped? I need to get keys to the dimmer room (not sure why the dimmer room is in the cieling but whatever)
 
What is the easiest possible way to know if a dimmer/breaker has tripped? I need to get keys to the dimmer room (not sure why the dimmer room is in the ceiling but whatever)
@baileypl Two comments: 1st in jest, 2nd serious.
1; Easiest way to tell a breaker has tripped with certainty is to see the breaker.
2; A very plausible reason for why your dimmer room is in your ceiling:
If I were the electrical consulting PEng, or electrical contractor, I would likely look at it this way.
Installing conduit costs money compounded by the labor to install it.
If I can throw conduit in a floor slab, it's never more economical to install as I don't have to make it pretty with time and labor intensive pretty, kink free, bends and I can simply tie it in place against re-rod rather than having the cost and labor of installing conduit clips.
A dimmer rack, from an installing electrician's point of view, is basically just a fancy breaker panel.
Similar to breaker panels, the closer I can locate them to their loads, the cheaper they are to install.
One larger diameter feed conduit going in. A multitude of smaller diameter load pipes going out.
Large diameter conduit is more expensive but all of the financial pain is over and done with in one run.
Smaller diameter pipe, especially if it's EMT, bends quickly and painlessly, more like installing spaghetti than 4" rigid with threaded joints.
One new theater I was involved with from before they turned the soil, had the dimmers located at a second floor dressing room elevation by the LX consulting PEng because it made the most sense for conduit runs. He located two 2,000 Amp 120 / 208 Volt fused disconnect panels in the dimmer room. One of the two 2,000 Amp panels housed four 3 phase 400 Amp fused disconnects supplying four Strand CD80 x 96 racks. 1600 Amps of load on a 2,000 Amp panel 80% / 125% loading depending upon your point of view, basically a happy panel. The second 2,000 Amp panel supplied the (Yuck!) dual width Colortran ENR house and work light dimmer rack and three or four roof-top HVAC units. This located the Strand racks at a decent elevation where about half their loads went up a hair and forward to FOH coves and box booms while the balance of their loads went down a hair and fed drop boxes on both SR and SL fly floors. Only a comparatively few dimmers fed the five corners of the stage [5 corners; DR, UR, USC, UL and DL] plus another 8 circuits in the trap and and pit areas. The best money I spent on that install bought a case of the tower crane operator's favorite beer and I made sure he had it about a week before our 44 RU Middle Atlantic audio racks were being delivered. I'd seen how the poor electricians had to break their backs lugging the four Strand CD/80 racks up internal stairs and into the cramped dimmer room. Within hours of our 44RU racks arriving on site, the tower crane operator picked them and lowered them gently into their room before the room's roof went on followed by the tar and gravel. Some times / most times it pays to look ahead and learn from the misadventures of others. [And then remember what you learn for your next job / employer]
EDIT: Missed a comma and typed 'of' instead of 'or'.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
Last edited:
In our new space due to open in January, the 4 Sensor racks are in the basement. 300+ circuits running to the SR catwalk added to the fly tower. We argued and argued and they just were unwilling to figure out how to get the dimmers someplace more logical.
 
In our new space due to open in January, the 4 Sensor racks are in the basement. 300+ circuits running to the SR catwalk added to the fly tower. We argued and argued and they just were unwilling to figure out how to get the dimmers someplace more logical.
@SteveB Sometimes your head would be bleeding from hitting it against a wall before you could find any logic. Sometimes it feels like "they" threw darts at the drawing and placed items wherever they landed. Sometimes you just get things corrected before the hole is dug, the concrete poured, the steel erected or whatever, without ever learning the "why's" behind inequities / incongruities.
Example; [My employer the A/V subcontractor was annoyed with me and kept reminding me it was none of our concern.]
Non-business sense me, I just couldn't walk past the (What's the politically correct way to phrase this?) naivety, lack of forethought, uh .. dumb phuque lunacy and watch extra money being spent to make a situation worse when it could be built better, more affordably, more convenient and safer with about five minutes of direct communication IF you could simply get the right three people together face to face for five minutes over a coffee.
Forgive me, some of the precise details have slipped from my mind over the years.
Short version: Dimmer room on third floor. Room for all four 48 slot / 96 way racks in the room. Only enough wall space for three of the four 400 Amp isolation switch / breakers. Three iso / breakers would fit within the room with the fourth rack being fed from a panel within a busy substation two floors down at ground level or the basement.
For the foreseeable life of the building, you'd have to go up and down the stairs doing the LOTO [Lock Out Tag Out] procedure when servicing dimmers. One floor below the dimmer room there was an identical room which was slightly larger because it was rectangular whereas the dimmer room on the third floor had one corner shaved off at a jaunty angle for no apparent reason.
Why was the corner shaved off? Nobody knew.
Was it to create a better turning radius for carts and personnel rounding the corner of an adjacent corridor? No.
Was it a code requirement? No.
Did it make the block wall quicker / easier to build? No. Quicker easier to paint? No.
One by one, whenever I'd notice one of the pertinent parties on site, if I could catch them for a moment when they weren't surrounded by important folk clamoring for attention, I'd quietly ask my dumb questions, thank them for educating me and inquire if there was anything I could do for them in return. When a building's under construction, there are always on-going changes like how you get from A to B while a given stairwell is being painted, a corridor tiled, yada, yada, etcetera. If you're a 'big wig' dropping in for an hour every couple of weeks, it's often useful if someone not only warns you a stairwell you're used to using is unavailable but simultaneously advises you of the most expeditious alternate route or, better yet, offers to walk you there AND carry that extra case you're toting.
One by one, I learned the architect had no need for the corner being shaved off.
The electrical PEng would be thrilled to have his extra couple of feet of wall space.
The electrical contractor would not only be delighted with the change but wouldn't seek a change order as he'd hands down save money on materials and labor.
The brick layers didn't care, a normal 90 degree corner was quicker to lay, used a few more blocks but the extra blocks were more than offset by the reduced time and labor on the block saw finessing blocks.
The painters didn't care. They'd be painting the walls with an airless and it was a wash for them in terms of both time and materials.
Bottom Line: It was less costly, less work, better all around to build the third floor dimmer room identical to the room one floor below. Sometimes you can please all of the people, just not all of the time.
Can you imagine becoming the Head LX in a newly constructed theatre where whenever you wanted to legally pull and swap a dimmer module, you first needed to know which rack it was in, NOT TO GO TO THE CORRECT DIMMER RACK OR ROOM but to know whether to head down a couple of flights into a busy sub, be sure you were switching off, locking and tagging the correct breaker in a room full, only to run back up a couple of flights to your rack room. MAYBE once or twice it's a novelty to go into the really big sub station room but I can't imagine this being a sensible way to power the dimmer racks and especially having to pay tens of thousands EXTRA for the privilege.
With apologies for blathering on. Things like this annoy me and I'm already annoying enough.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 
Ron, you need to write a book!
@JonCarter ; So I quit wasting server space here?
@SteveB
Another example from the same theatre.
The single purchase flies were on SL, all of it of course; idlers, stage level secondary operating locks, fly-floor / primary operating rail, lower and upper loading floors, head blocks, stairs to the grid where there was adequaate head clearance for adding spot lines. There were stairwells of varying heights on the four corners of the stage; DSR, DSL, USR and USL plus freight and passenger elevators, both USR, and two Spira-lift stage lifts.
What was wrong with this picture?
The only way from the stage to the operating rail was from DSR; up stairs, through a fire proof door in the prosc', across the 1st FOH lighting catwalk [over the patrons, musicians or forestage depending upon how the lifts and seating were configured] without disturbing the lights or displacing any colors, gobos, frames or spare lamps then back through a fire rated door to the DSL end of the operating rail. If you were heading to either loading floor or the grid, you then traversed the primary operating rail to a dedicated stairwell running up from the USL end of the fly floor to the two loading floors and then a small four or five step ship's ladder from the upper loading floor to the grid. A long and circuitous route to take if you only need to lock or unlock a primary lock or shuffle a couple of counter-weights, grab a coffee or urinate between cues during a performance.
If you stood back, looked at the big picture and THOUGHT about how humans would actually use this space, [Rather than looking at each and every little piece as an isolated problem in need of a solution] you'd see there was already a stairwell in place in the USL corner linking the stage level dressing rooms up to the upper level chorus dressing rooms and up another level again to a large common area spanning the full width of the stage all the way over to the USR stairwell.
Let me spell this out clearly.
There was already a stairwell in place on the US side of the US wall running from stage level all the way up to the third floor of the building.
What was missing? Access to it from other sides and levels that had not been considered by either the lower level minions in the architect's office or the structural engineer's office when they drew the stairwell with one, and one only, purpose in mind.
True. A fire rated door through the US structural wall to couple the stairwell to the primary locking rail would cost money BUT they already were paying for the door, it was just at the wrong end of the fly floor passing through the proscenium and out to the FOH catwalks.
In the end, the USL door was added and the DSL door remained in place at zero additional cost since it was going to cost more in drawing and change order costs to remove it and re-stamp the drawings.
THE TAKEAWAY HERE IS: Many, many things are possible but you need to be looking for them, thinking them fully through from many simultaneous perspectives AND you have to do this before civil has drawn footing locations, structural has drawn supporting structure, architects have detailed stairwells, yada, yada, et al.
Bottom line: It's FAR easier to guide "them" down preferred paths initially than to back the train up and switch tracks after you've passed the round house; drawn, stamped and approved drawings, put them out to tendering, have received bids and are now contemplating change orders. Low bidders search for CCN's [Contemplated Change Notices] It's what they count on to maintain profitability and remain in business. Never think your friendly, eager, hungry low bidders are going to point out loopholes, errors and omissions to you or your architect BEFORE they've been awarded their signed contracts. You may like to think things would work that way but that's NOT how the construction business works.
Thanks for your thoughts @JonCarter , there's another couple of pages for the "book".
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back