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what wattage?

Discussion in 'Lighting and Electrics' started by dimwatt, Dec 18, 2004.

  1. dimwatt

    dimwatt Member

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    Hello,

    I recently purchased a set of second-hand CCT Minuette Fresnels, complete with lamps. Unfortunately I don't know the wattage of the lamps, and there are no markings on them.

    I know they could be 300W, 500W or 650W but any suggestions as to how I can find out which? I need to know so that I don't overload any lighting circuits.

    Thanks,
    Dim.
     
  2. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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    any clue what the manufacturer might be?
     
  3. dimwatt

    dimwatt Member

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    No. The only marking in the base of the lamp is a faint "UK" or possibly "OK". There are 8 vertical fillaments, if that's any clue.
     
  4. disc2slick

    disc2slick Active Member

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    yo, according to "Stage Lightind Design" the book by richard pilbrow, the CCT Minuette fresnel takes 650w, so there ya go.

    -dan
     
  5. dimwatt

    dimwatt Member

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  6. eamon

    eamon Member

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    Hi

    The CCT Min F is rated for both 500/650 watt bulbs i.e. T18 base holder.

    I don't have their web address to hand. I have used/fixed loads of them over the psat couple of years. I would reccommend not putting more than 500 watts into them due to the lack of ventilation. I have noticed they blow more easily. The 650watt bulb works fine but I generally max them at 500watt.

    They are one of the best 1/2 Fresnels about. extremely easily to re-wire etc

    Hope this helps

    eamon
    :lol:
     
  7. dimwatt

    dimwatt Member

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    Thanks everyone for the advice/information. I'm glad I bought some good lanterns :)

    CCT website is at http://www.cctlighting.com/z0642.htm but that doesn't really help me decide whether I've got 500W or 650W fitted.

    These are ex-hire kit, so the information about 650W bulbs blowing leads me to suspect that these are more likely to be 500W (which is what I'm hoping they are).

    I had hoped that someone would say "oh yes, count the number of filaments and if there are N of them it's a XXXw bulb" or "measure the resistance of the bulb and if it's XXohms then it's a YYYw one".

    I've tried searching with Google to see if I could locate any information like that, but to no avail.

    Cheers,
    Dim.
     
  8. Mayhem

    Mayhem Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    You could try asking the person/company that you bought them from.

    If not, you could use a multimeter. There was a post on this side not too long ago that discussed this but I do not recall the specifics.

    Sorry I cannot help more on this aspect but my first choice would be to ask the guy who sold them to you.
     
  9. mbenonis

    mbenonis Wireless Guy Administrator

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    Do the lamps not have a model number stamped on them? For example, our fresnel lamps are either BTN (750W) or BTR (1kW). You can look up these model numbers to see the wattage.
     
  10. dimwatt

    dimwatt Member

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    Unfortunately they came from a company that went belly up, and I bought them through an auction, so there was no one around to ask. The company used to hire them out with both 500W and 650W lamps, hence my quandary.

    The only marking on the lamps is a faint "UK" or possibly "OK".

    I searched the forum looking for dmm or multimeter, but all it talked about was resistance in cables, not in the lamps themselves.

    If my memory of school physics is correct, it ought to be easy to measure the resistance of the lamp and work out the power from that. But life's never that simple, as the resistance characteristics change between cold (when it's out of the lantern and easy to measure) and hot (when it's got 110v or 220v passing through it and hidden inside the lantern).

    As the lamps have no real markings on them, and they came from a rental company, I assume that were quite cheap and are likely to blow in the near future. Perhaps I should just go out and buy a set of 500w lamps and be done with it. Or see how many I can plug into a circuit before something trips (only kidding).
     
  11. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    T-18 is a type of lamp not a base holder or lamp base. The lamp based used is a GY 9.5.

    When you measure resistance of a cold lamp, you than measure it against a known wattage source that’s also cold. Granted due to lamp hours on the lamp and factors in opposing brands will make the exact resistance differ slightly. In the end, you will still find that the 650w lamp will match up closer to a 650w lamp than to a 500w lamp. Just a question of getting a known source in wattage to measure against. That’s given you want to trust these lamps once you determine the wattage. On a lamp where it’s been in the fixture long enough that the markings on it have warn off, it probably won’t have a dependable amount of life left in it. In other words, it probably will blow during a show. Best to start from scratch with new lamps and either use these as spares at most or toss them in the trash.

    Seems as if you are also in some amount of question about the safety of the wiring in the fixtures. Which lamp to use most safely or one wattage of lamp over another due to the fixture’s condition. While the difference between these wattages is not going to that greatly effect the temperature of the lamp will operate at because it’s only 150w, if in doubt about the fixture (Luminaire) you should have it professionally inspected for safety. Those temperature issues or questions will be present no matter what lamp you have in it if in question. Just because it came from a hire company (that went belly up), does not mean it’s any safer than something that was used in someone’s garage based DJ company. Such a inspection can in the long run save you money if just on the lamp life because if the lamp bases are trashed, they will trash even new lamps in making them have a shorter lamp life no matter the condition of the cable feeding the fixture.

    Also, in being “sure which lamp to use so you don’t overload any lighting circuits,” I’m not sure where you are going with that first question you asked because it’s more a system loading question or how many lights you want and at how much intensity, verses how much amperage is available in the system to power them up. That’s more a design/ME question than one of the condition of the fixtures or which lamps can safely be used.

    As for lamps, given you are stating the intent to use T-26, T-25 and T-18 Euro. Lif Code lamps as an alternate to the American ANSI system, than I assume you are in Europe and using 230v. The BTN/BTL is a lamp for a different type of Fresnel and with a completely different lamp base type. If you are in North America, than the 120v lamps you will be wanting to use would be a completely different list of lamps available for these fixtures than the one below. (The last figure to each lamp is lamp hours. Determine the wattage necessary or lumens of intensity desired, than balance it with lamp life and color temperature advantages. The next factor, filament size won’t matter because a Fresnel is not accurate enough to necessitate a point source small filament area. A factor that’s more American than Euro however is filament type such as c-13D verses cc-8. Both of these types will be stronger than the others, one because of the heavier arrangement of filament coils on their supports in a very heavy duty way - the larger the number the better, the other (cc-8) because of the double coil construction to the filament. Such filaments, tend to withstand a little more abuse than say a c-13 or c-8 filament.

    Of the list, the best lamps I see are the 300w Philips M -38 for long life or Philips FSL for high output. In 500w, it’s the GE/Thorn line of T-18 & T-25 lamp if still made such as the HX-501. Otherwise all others in that area are about the same in quaility. For long life in a 500w lamp, the Philips or Thorn also if still made, 240 (M -40) looks like a darned good lamp. For 650w, the GE or Osram FRL, both if still made would be best look like a decent lamp. Otherwise the 240v Philips GCS for long life. Hope it helps.

    Type: Brand: Description: Wattage: Bulb: Filament
    Arc Gap LCL/MOL Base: Notes / CRI Color Temp Output: Life:


    JCS220/230v-300wC Ushio #1000954 CL, Quartz 300w/220v T-23mm c-13D LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Any Burn Pos. 3,050°K 6,600 Lum 150
    FSL G.E. #30456 CL, Quartz 300w/230v T-6 c-13 LCL 1.13/16" GX 9.5 (Base Down) 3,200°K 6,900 Lum 200
    FSL (#6872P) (3/03) Philips #923949542900 (CP-81) CL, Quartz M-Shaped Filament 300w/230v T-18mm 8x13mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Univ. Burn, P-3 Tech 3,200°K 7,050 Lum 150=50%
    FSK G.E. #39779 (?disc.) (CP 81) CL, Quartz (11x10mm Filmt.) 300w/240-250v T-25mm c LCL 46mm GY 9.5 Base Down to Horz. 3,200°K 6,900 Lum 150
    FSK (#6872P) (3/03) Philips #923949545700 (CP-81) CL. Quartz M-Shaped Filmt. 300w/240v T-18mm 8x13mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Univ. Burn, P-3 Tech 3,200°K 7,050 Lum 150=50%
    M-38 (220-230v) G.E. #39785 (?disc.) (M-38) CL, Quartz Capsule 300w/220-230v T-28.6mm cc-8 LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Axial Coiled Coiled Filmt. 2,800°K 5,500 Lum 2,000
    M-38 (240-250v) G.E. #39784 (?disc.) (M-38) CL, Quartz Capsule 300w/240-250v T-28.6mm cc-8 LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Axial Coiled Coiled Filmt. 2,800°K 5,500 Lum 2,000
    #6874P (230v) (3/03) Philips #923949743200 (M-38) CL, Quartz M-Shaped Filmt. 300w/230v T-18mm 8x14mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Any Burn Pos. 2,950°K 5,100 Lum 2,000
    #64662 Osram (No Number) (M-38) CL, Quartz 300w/230v T-15mm 9x11mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Monoplane Filmt. Any Burn Pos 2,900°K 5,000 Lum 2,000
    #6874P (240v) Philips #187673 (M-38) CL, Quartz M-Shaped Filmt. 300w/240v T-18mm 11x11mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Universal Burn 2,950°K 5,200 Lum 2,000
    #6874P (240v) (3/03) Philips #923949745700 (M-38) CL, Quartz, M-Shaped Filmt. 300w/240v T-18mm 8x14mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Any Burn Pos. 2,950°K 5,100 Lum 2,000
    QT Thorn (M-38) CL, Qaurtz 300w/240v GY 9.5 (Sym to Osram & Philips M38) CRG 1A 2,950°K 5,200 Lum 2,000


    FRH G.E. #30459 CL, Quartz 500w/220v T-8 c-13 LCL 46mm GX 9.5 (Base Down) 3,200°K 12,500 Lum 150
    FRH (#6873P) (3/03) Philips #923949642900 (CP-82) CL, Quartz M-Shaped 500w/230v T-18mm 8x18mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Univ. Burn, P-3 Tech 3,200°K 13,500 Lum 150=50%
    FRJ G.E. #39628 (?disc.) (CP 82) CL, Quartz (13x13mm Filmt.) 500w/240v T-25mm c-13 LCL 46mm GY 9.5 Base Down to Horz. 3,200°K 12,500 Lum 150
    FRJ (#6873P) (3/03) Philips #923949645500 (CP-82) 500w/240v T-18mm 8x18mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Univ. Burn, P-3 Tech 3,200°K 13,500 Lum 150=50%
    GCW G.E. #39629 (?disc.) (T-18) CL, Quartz 500w/240v T-25mm c-13 LCL 46mm GY 9.5 (13.5x13mm Monoplane Grid Filmt.) Base Down ±90° 3,050°K 11,000 Lum 400
    GCW/GCJ (3/03) Philips #923894045500 (#6820P) (T-25 & T-18) CL, Quartz Bi-Plane 500w/240v T-22mm 11x11mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Any Burn Pos. 3,000°K 11,000 Lum 300
    HX 501 G.E. #35484 (?disc.) CL, Quartz (Loop/Ring Bulb) 500w/230v LCL 46mm GX 9.5 Base Down to Horz. 3,050°K 11,500 Lum 300
    GCV (220v) (Disc?) G.E. #30462 CL, Quartz (?230v) 500w/220v T-8 c-13 LCL 1.13/16" GX 9.5 (LCL 46mm) (Base Down) 3,050°K 11,000 Lum 400
    GCV (220/230v) Ushio #1000651 (?Disc.) (JCS220/230v-500wB1GYB) CL, Quartz 500w/220-230v GY 9.5
    GCV (230v) G.E. #39455 (?disc.) (T-25) CL, Quartz 500w/230v T-23mm c-13D LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 (11x11mm Biplane Grid Filmt.) Base Down to Horz. 3,000°K 11,000 Lum 360
    GCV/GVH (3/03) Philips #923894043200 (#6820P)(T-25 & T-18) CL, Quartz Bi-Plane 500w/230v T-22mm 11x11mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Any Burn Pos. 3,000°K 11,000 Lum 300
    #64670 (?Disc.) Osram (No Number) (T-25) CL, Quartz 500w/230v T-26mm 11x11mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 (Base Down ±90°) Avbl in 240v 3,000°K 11,000 Lum 300
    GCV (230v) G.E. #37917 (?disc.) (T-18) CL, Quartz 500w/230v T-25mm c-13 LCL 46mm GY 9.5 (13.5x13mm Monoplane Grid Filmt.) Base Down ±90° 3,050°K 11,000 Lum 400
    GCV Osram (Special Order) (#64684) (T-18) CL, Quartz 500w/230v T-25mm 12x13mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 (Base Down ±90°) 3,000°K 11,000 Lum 400
    M-40 (220-230v) G.E. #39621 (?disc.) (M-40) CL, Quartz Capsule 500w/220-230v T-30mm c-8 LCL 45.5mm GY 9.5 Axial Single Coil Filmt. 2,900°K 8,500 Lum 2,000
    #64672 Osram (No Number) (M-40) CL, Quartz 500w/230v 22mm 12x11mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Monoplane Filmt. Universal Burn Pos. 2,900°K 8,500 Lum 2,000
    #6877P (230v) (3/03) Philips #923949843200 (M-40) CL, Quartz M-Shaped Filmt. 500w/230v T-18mm 8x21mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Any Burn Pos. 2,950°K 10,000 Lum 2,000
    #6877P (240v) (3/03) Philips #923949845700 (M-40) CL, Quartz M-Shaped Filmt. 500w/240v T-18mm 8x21mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Any Burn Pos. 2,950°K 10,000 Lum 2,000
    QT Thorn (M-40) CL, Quartz 500w/240v GY 9.5 (Sym to Osram & Philips M40) CRG 1A 2,950°K 10,000 Lum 2,000
    M-40 (240-250v) G.E. #39622 (?disc.) (M-40) CL, Quartz Capsule 500w/240-250v T-30mm c-8 LCL 45.5mm GY 9.5 Axial Single Coil Filmt. 2,900°K 8,500 Lum 2,000


    FRL (220v) G.E. #30482 CL, Quartz (?230v) 650w/220v T-8 c-13 LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 (Base Down to Horz) 3,200°K 16,250 Lum 150
    FRL (230v) G.E. #39640 (?disc.) (CP-89) CL, Quartz 650w/230v T-25mm c-13 LCL 46mm GY 9.5 (13x13mm Monoplane Grid Filmt.) Base Down ±90° 3,200°K 16,250 Lum 150
    FRL (230v) Osram/Sylvania #54639 (#64717) (CP-89) CL, Quartz 650w/230v T-26mm 11x11mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Base Down ±90° 3,200°K 16,250 Lum 150
    FRL (3/03) Philips #924501342900 (#6638P) (CP-89) CL, Quartz Bi-Plane Filmt 650w/230v T-22mm 11x12mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Univ. Burn, P-3 Tech 3,200°K 15,600 Lum 150=50%
    FRM (3/03) Philips #924501345500 (#6638P) (CP-89) CL, Quartz Bi-Plane 650w/240v T-22mm 11x12mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Univ. Burn, P-3 Tech 3,200°K 15,600 Lum 150=50%
    FRM G.E. #39642 (?disc.) (CP-89) CL, Quartz 650w/240v T-25mm c-13 LCL 46mm GY 9.5 (13x13mm Monoplane Grid Filmt.) Base Down ±90° 3,200°K 16,250 Lum 150
    GCT G.E. #39635 (?disc.) (T-26) CL, Quartz 650w/230v T-25mm c-13 LCL 46mm GY 9.5 (13.5x15.5mm Monoplane Grid Filmt) Base Down ±90° 3,050°K 15,000 Lum 400
    GCT G.E. #39456 (?disc.) (T-27) CL, Quartz 650w/230v T-23mm c-13D LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 (13x11mm Biplane Grid Filmt.) Base Down ±90° 3,050°K 14,500 Lum 400
    GCT Osram (No Number) (#64718) (T-27) CL, Quartz 650w/230v T-26mm 11x11mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 (Base Down ±90°) Avbl. in 240v 3,000°K 14,500 Lum 400
    GCK/GCT Philips #25794-9(185542) (#6823P)(T-27) CL, Quartz Bi-Plane 650w/230v T-22mm 11x13mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Base Down ±90° 3,050°K 14,500 Lum 600
    GCK/GCT (3/03) Philips #923865443200 (#6823P) (T-27 & T-26) CL, Quartz Bi-Plane 650w/230v T-22mm 11x13.5mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Any Burn Pos. 3,050°K 14,500 Lum 450
    GCS G.E. #39636 (?disc.) (T-26) CL, Quartz 650w/240v T-25mm c-13 LCL 46mm GY 9.5 (13.5x15.5mm Monoplan Grid Filmt) Base Down ±90° 3,050°K 15,000 Lum 400
    GCS G.E. #39457 (?disc.) (T-27) CL, Quartz 650w/240v T-23mm c-13D LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 (13x11mm Biplane Grid Filament) Base Down ±90° 3,050°K 14,500 Lum 400
    GCL/GCS (3/03) Philips #923865445500 (#6823P)(T-27 & T-26) CL, Quartz Bi-Plane 650w/240v T-22mm 11x13.5mm LCL 46.5mm GY 9.5 Any Burn Pos. 3,050°K 14,500 Lum 450
     
  12. Radman

    Radman Well-Known Member

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    Could always just buy new lamps and then you'd be certain.
     
  13. dimwatt

    dimwatt Member

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    Thanks for all the help and advice, it is much appreciated.

    I've checked the resistance of all the lamps, and most appear to be 500W with a couple of 650W ones thrown in for good measure.

    I'm going to do the sensible thing and persuade the producer to come up with some cash to buy a new set of lamps, keeping the old ones as emergency spares. I'm also getting our friendly electrician to give the lanterns the once over.

    Many thanks,
    Dim.
     
  14. avkid

    avkid Not a New User Fight Leukemia

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    so that's what BTN means,thank you!!
     
  15. ship

    ship Senior Team Emeritus Premium Member

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    American National Standards Institute.

    The BTN lamp is designated by this standard to be a P-28s based halogen lamp of 750w and 120v having a LCL (Lamp Center Length - to the center of the filament from a specified measuring point around the lamp base - in this case the pre-focus fin.) The LCL of a BTN will be 2.3/16" no doubt with some tolerance to it but not much.

    After that you get into a little more of a grey area.

    It's normally a T-7 globe in being 7/8" wide, a c-13 or c-13D filament, and a 500 hour life.

    Beyond that, the average color temperature is around 3,050°K but it ranges from 3,000°K to 3,200°K depending on what company is making the lamp, and in having a average of 1,700 Lumens in output in going up to 17,600. (Thus is why I track brand specifications beyond what most in general track by way of ANSI code lamps. If I'm paying for it, I want the most cost effective or best output lamp available for my money.)

    Beyond this BTN specification, some older versions have a base down to horizontal position requirement due to how the filament hangs on it's hangers but some more modern versions have a universal burning position. This ranges from 15 degrees to 30 degrees dependant upon the brand before they started going any hang position for some brands.

    As you can see, with the ANSI system, there is a bit of range in difference between what one lamp manufacturer will produce as compared to another yet still both complying with the standard.



    This all as opposed to the European Lif. code system or Japan J-Code system both of which base their lamps on a much less defined system still. The J-Code for instance is a nightmare for basing lamps, in that it's more based upon the type of filler style or premium verses normal grading of a lamp than what the lamp does or any specific version of it. Never really memorized the J-Code system because it makes no sense.

    The Euro. Lif code system is more based upon the fixture it's used in or type of them within a specified range such as Fresnel verses Leko in having a very broad classification of which lamps comply, much less which lamps cross over. Thus above with this 230v lamp, you will see many many types of Euro code lamps from the CP-82 to the T-27 in all being a similar lamp other than differences in wattage and designation. In many cases, it's for all intensive purposes the same lamp and will work. Good idea for a lamp system based around the fixture but did not work in the end. At this point the Lif code system will head you in the right direction but not be the end all for lamps that will work. Sometimes it's useful however in designating a lamp with a filament hung horizontally instead of vertically. As opposed to other systems that might not designate this on low voltage lamps, the Lif Code system usually will differentuate in this way.



    Beyond these official standards designations there is a few other standards and designations to lamps the companies themselves have made up and follow often loosely brand to brand or as unique to them.

    The major lamp system is a temporary designation to lamps before they get their ANSI code, that is based around a GE/Thorn designation other companies use in the HX series of lamp to describe their version of it. The HX-600 being famous as one version of this HX lamp which turned into the FLK we all know. Still have customers asking what the difference is between the lamps. Difference is none if the HX-600 complies to the Thorn version of it, but since the HX series is not a ANSI code, what Ushio calls a HX for instance does not mean it's the same as what Osram calls it.

    This experimental halogen lamp standard than went HP for a different filament design to the above lamp (subject to a lot of debate on who is telling you why it's a HP instead of HX lamp. The HPL are part of this HX-600 series of lamp even if not invented by Thorn. Nope them S-4 lamps are not ANSI code lamps in having varying wattages and voltages much less life ratings that would require about 24 ANSI code lamps for the HPL alone to comply due to the above. Note the HP as similar to the HP-600 as opposed to the HX. We now have the HPL meaning a HP lamp with a heat sink, or the HPR in having a HP lamp with a internal reflector. This beyond the normal FLK based lamp system.

    Beyond these specific 575w Leko lamps, we have 1200w PAR 64 lamps such as the HX-156 that later became an ANSI GFB lamp. Or at least in the HX-156 having a broad base of which lamp it will be, it became the GFA, GFC and GFE at least on the 120v lamps dependant upon the beam spread, and three more for the 230v ones based on this HX-156 designation. As said with the HPL lamps above, the HX temporary or exprimental designation is not as good as a ANSI coded lamp, and it might seem to be part of the Lif code system except that it's based for classification around the lamp and not the fixture it goes into. Still the HX series will be based around a specific classification of lamp which is better than the Lif or J-Code system.

    There is also the Thorn based HX-2400/CYX on the market though it's about impossible to get any information about this lamp. Basically it's a higher wattage/lower voltage version of the 2,000w/120v ANSI standard CYX lamp used in studio Fresnel fixtures. This lamp without a doubt would be the FLK to the EHD, only GE - Thorn's owner does not publish any info about Thorn products GE does not also offer. They thus are not selling like hot cakes. The HX-600 lamp was less a GE product than one from the UK based Thorn that GE adopted and mass marketed. Same with the Japan based, Koto who I hear is thinking about going indipendant again on some things. Ushio also owns Reflekto a German company that makes some darned good lamps and is under-represented by Ushio. GE owns various other companies in retaining their own name so do all brands have similar secondary comanies associated with them in confusing who is making or owning what.

    On the HX-600 / FLK series of lamp that most of our modern Leko lamps are based off of, I remember the HX-600 lamps listing up to the HX-605 or even say a HX-607 as a possibility which somewhere had both long and short life/high output, long life being every odd number, and the different voltages ranging with one each it's designation. For instance, the HX-603 started out to be a 120v version of the FLK/HX-600. Don't look for it because it's no longer available at least as that same lamp.

    Somewhere along the line of development either the HX-603 or HX-605 became the GLA lamp which due to it's refined filament is the main Strand/Altman Leko lamp used on their new lights. Depends upon the source because some even call the GLA the HP-601. Remember that the HP/HX series is the experimental non-official compliance one thus the vendors can call it what they want. Lots of confusion on the HP-601 verses the HX-601, or even HP600X which by description of long verses short life don't work, these verses a abberation on the ANSI line of the FLK/LL as a very non-official name for a lamp. We know what it means but by definition the FLK is not a long life lamp. This given Philips says they developed the GLA series of lamp from scratch and it's not at all based upon a Thorn lamp.

    One will also note that the FLK never had it's long life version - that HX-601 become a long life ANSI version of this lamp. My estimation is that the FLK while a huge improvement over a EHD is a dead end lamp now that the GLA/GLC, much less HPR lamps came out. We also have the HX-755 & HX-756 which are 750w FLK type improved lamps of much usefulness that later became the GLD & GLD respectively as an improvement over the old EHG and similar to the HPL 750 lamps. Also like the HPL, we have the HX-400 and HX-401 series of lower wattage similar to S-4 lamps.



    More than this still, since the HX series of lamp while greatly respected is a GE/Thorn type of thing, Osram and Philips also have their own ANSI like standards that are not quite part numbers but not ANSI adopted standards either.

    Osram/Sylvania especially has the next best system in their Xenon filled halogen lamp series of HLX. I constantly get people helping me determine what lamp they need by telling me it's a HLX as if ANSI code in not helping at all. Gee, that limits it down to 50 or 100 lamps. The HLX series is something like the HX-600 series of lamp and given this, there is some wee numbers following these letters to designate what specific lamp it is. HLX designates a Xenon filler added to the halogen filler in boosting the color temperature of the halogen lamp. Beyond that, the numbers following HLX is what matters as it designates a specific lamp type.

    One of the more famous lamps for this five didgit non-serial number series (because they have different serial/part numbers) would be the #64514 lamp or as I call it the Flink 4A as that's what's also printed on the box. It's not a part number as that's #54007, instead it's a HX like number in this case for a Lif code CP-96 used in a wiggle light fixture or more specifically the Elation Europa, 1201, 1202, 1203, Illusionarie, Rolling Star, Polaris, 4-Play, Brain Storm, and many many more for them from Elation - a ADJ owned comapny, American DJ itself and other fixtures using this popular lamp. It's not called the CP-96, it's the Osram designation of it instead as if a HX-600.

    Next we get into the Philips four number plus a letter code on lamps Euro standard. Philips in many cases in fact is doing away with listing their general purpose lamps under the ANSI system - remember that the standard in filament lamps is more than just us using it on stage, buy a halogen home lamp or a photo studio lamp and it's also using the ANSI system. Strict compliance to the ANSI system would mean that if you have say a ELC lamp, it's limited to a 50 hour lamp. They now go up to 1,000 hours and while many companies will tack on a 10H or /10 to the ANSI code, it's still not able to cure all problems such as lensed or not lensed on a MR-16 lamp or other slight changes such as a neomoleum or dichroic coating much less xenon filler in completely changing the lamp.

    I think given this, they use the number letter code also in not being their part number as a better refinement at least for a Philips lamp than a ANSI code to them. The #6981P lamp for the Color Command might be the prime example of this brand specific filament based lamp. This lamp is very much similar to a GLD/HX-754 lamp above, but in Philips going with their own standard in lamp, they were free to develop a more efficient lamp than the GLD in having a better filament and higher output and longer life. For all intensive purposes the HES brand of Color Command lamp is a GLD and acceptable for use in a Altman 360Q or Shakespeare fixture in now having a lamp better than the ETC's HPL 750 for intensity, but Philips is keeping their lamp to their hart for now in it not being a ANSI compliant lamp at least for general output, filament and life even if the color temperature and LCL much less base is the same.



    Beyond these standards, there is another in general accepted system amongst vendors:
    GE has their sealed beam/mini-lamp designations for lamps such as on a mirror ball light - the pinspot. It uses a #4515 lamp which is a PAR 36 at 30v/5.5 to 6 volts. Just about all manufacturers use the same mini lamp and auto lamp codes such as a H-5 based upon a similar system for coding. These mini-lamp specifications seem to be more refined than the ANSI system and universally compliant in that for the most part when a company produces a lamp, it's the same in all ways as another companie's lamp or it gets a new designation such as the H4515 which in being a halogen version of the lamp has a higher output or #4509X which while often such "X" designation lamps will have a longer life, in this case the lamp will have a extra very narrow beam to it. This as opposed to other versions of the #4509 using a "S" to designate a filament shield to refine the beam or perhaps a "Y" following it to designate a transparent yellow tint to the lens. Still a #4509 is a 4509 no matter what modifier is on it.



    After these real standards we get into fake lamp systems that make lots of money for the company using the system given the customers don't know any better thus look for a specific lamp only they sell or get confused in figuring it out.
    American DJ ZB & LL series for instance is a fake designation. A ZB-FLK is a FLK lamp -normally a GE version of it as a supplier the same as any other GE supplier would provide. Nothing special about this except the ZB designation added on. A ZB-300 on the other hand is a little more complex to figure out. It's a strobe light lamp made by someone else as American DJ as a company does not manufacture lamps, but a little more hard to figure out who is making it. Given 300 is all the info you have, it's a little more difficult to get elsewhere. The ZB-RLUX for another instance is very much similar to some other lamps with looped filaments but still not specific enough to figure out short of a lot tracking down.

    This is similar to the High End Systems Trackspot QT-8500 which is actally a Philips #6958 lamp, or Lif Code M-33 or ANSI EVC/FGX lamp. The second ANSI code on a lamp will designate a lamp the first one replaces as being similar. Given Philips makes the lamp for High End as a OEM product under that designation but also makes the EVC, the Osram HLX 64657 also a EVC lamp is lost in the notes about the suitable lamps for the fixture. Much less for the J-Code JC series of for instance JC24v250w-20H/G2 lamp from Eye brand will also work in the fixture as a long life replacement lamp alternative. The EVC/EHJ, EVC, EVC/FGX, EHJ, M-33, 240T4.25Q/CL24v and JC24-250v20H by GE, Thorn, Osram, Philips, Ushio, Reflekto, Eye, and Wiko/Eiko respectively will all work in the fixture in fact - so much for needing a QT-8500 lamp only.

    Martin is another example of re-packaging a stock lamp and masking it in a code. They call their Mini-Mac/RoboScan/RoboColor amongst a few fixtures lamp the MMH 150 or MMH 152. At least used to but I think they became more reasonable in calling it what it is. Nothing special about it just a Martin box. Osram makes the lamp for them and call it the HTI 150 and HTI 152 respectively. GE/Koto makes the DIS-1H which would work in the fixture probably, otherwise the GE CSS150/CAP/50 would work for sure as an alternative set of brands.

    Also confusing about the American DJ line of lamp is the fact that LL following their ZB than ANSI code is often a LL designation behind it. This normally meaning Long Life gets confusing because it's not longer life but designating their home China brand of Lamp Light as a company also making the other than name brand lamp equivolent. The ZB-FLK for the most part guarentees it's going to be GE, Philips, Osram or Ushio. The LL designates a foreign knock off if not Lamp Light which either makes their own or often will also sell the name brand lamps as it's own distributer hub. Lamp Light is not that bad of a brand. Lots of lamps made over seas are improving in quailty. Koto for instance was and is every bit as good as GE, so is EYE as a brand, PEC is decent with some stuff so are others. Wiko/Eiko is really making a name for themselves also. Domestic brands are meaning less and less in quality thus.

    Further would be OEM specific products. The old Coemar Power Cyc units used to use a Philips OEM product in the form of a MSI 1800 lamp. For a while you could not get it other than thru them. The VeriLite 1000 series uses a Philips and now also Ushio OEM line but has allowed the lamp to be opened up for other retailers to sell the specialized lamp design.

    On the other hand, the fixture manufacturer might buy the OEM lamp and modify the bulb. In the case of the Martin Atomic strobe light, it's using a Philips XOP 15O/F xenon lamp as possibly similar to a GE or Pomona PXA 44A or Ushio UPX-42, (my xenon notes are still building in detail thus it's hard to verify this.) Yet if you buy this lamp from Philips, it won't work because Martin wraps the ignition wire around the Philips lamp in helping it to strobe. While you can buy a #30749-6 Philips lamp and wrap your own wire around it, in essense, Martin becomes the manufacturer of the real Atomic lamp due to the modification.


    Of note especially on the subject of moving light and various arc source lamps, there is no ANSI standard to them. There is a ANSI standard to the ballasts such as I'm looking for 150w sodium vapor lamps that will thus use a S-55 ballast, what one company might call a LU150, another might call a HPS-T, another call it a SON.
    While the MSR line of lamp might seem as if a ANSI designation to them, in reality it's a propriatary term for the arc lamp by Philips in not having a standard for them beyond the ballast type they all will work for and in general a lot of copying off and improving on each other's lamps. Big thing this copying because when you have say 200 moving lights using this lamp, either the next brand has to be the same in making a sale or it's a no go. Amglo found this out in a big way as they went thru many doctoring up of their lamps to finally match that of the Philips.

    Philips in introducing their MSI 1800w/s lamp alternative to the Mac 2K's either Osram HMI 1200w/S now TBA the HTI 120w/D7/60, or Koto's DI-12/S now the GE/Koto CSR1200s/DE which both were similar, Philips came out with a alternative that was dim in comparision. Hear they improved it to match, hear also they did not. I know Ushio's UMI 1200/HB does not list the same color temperature - must be made by Philips for them. Amglo also offers the AHMI-1200w/S which no doubt by now matches the Osram standard. Out of interest, Philips used to call their version the MSR 1200SA/DE. Confusing yet? As I said, there is no ANSI standard and lots of similar names but also lots of name changes.

    The MSR 575/2 lamp for instance will be a CSS or CSR lamp for GE, verses a USR or HSR for Ushio and Osram, much less Wolfram and Amglo who have the WSR and AMHK line of lamp that's the same lamp in general to the above given often there will be two color temperature versions available. You don't even want to know how many designations for the Mini-Mac like or Star Par type of G-12 based lamp there is that's now cenered around Philips CDM line as a major player but not the only designation. Martin or anyone else in telling you a fixture is taking a CDM 150 lamp is doing you no favors as there is at least six different versions of just those same letters and wattage including a reflector lamp CDM 150.

    In general, there is no ANSI sysem to a arc lamp just lots of confusion. There is in general principals all companies will follow such as Cool White being about 4,100K in color temperature, but after that, not much similarity.
     

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