What would I need to integrate this into our light system?

[soundtech193746]

I am currently working as a technical director at a church. Currently, we have a ETC Element 40 250 and have it wired to the lights using DMX. No dimmers at all. Just PAR cans daisy chained via DMX. Anyways... We want to integrate the house lights into the system... Any ideas? I was thinking Paradigm but could not find any pricing information. We want a touch screen similar to this. That way we don't have to have light switches and have it together. I hope this makes sense....

Tl:dr: How can i get this touchscreen (https://www.etcconnect.com/Products...chscreen-Stations/7-Touchscreen/Features.aspx) up and running?

 

[Mac Hosehead]

To integrate a Paradigm touchscreen for your houselights, you will need at least a Paradigm cabinet and processor. Paradigm systems are quoted by ETC dealers. They can determine the equipment you will need to make everything work.

 

[Brentgi]

Do you have DMX controlled dimmers for your house or are they LED? Does the Element currently control your house lights at all?

 

[SteveB]

BIG, BIG issue to deal with and consider is emergency lighting for the audience/parishioner area - I.E. "House Lights". What's there now ?

If you have a separate system, battery or generated and stand-alone fixtures, that are not part of the house lighting, then continue to step 2.

If the house lighting is also your emergency lighting, then you need to have a consultant help you to integrate the house lights you want dimmed with the need to activate these lights from an emergency power source in the event of a fire or power loss.

Step 2, If you have a separate system, what are the house lights currently ?, and are they LED that can receive DMX or are incandescent needing dimmers ?.

The Paradigm system is a great choice and the LCD screen option is a slick system. You can have a dealer programs the screens for a ton of functions, code activated pages for rehearsals, events, work days, etc.... As well as being able to configure the screen to what you need. Not cheap and at the minimum a 19" rack unit with the Paradigm processor (though if using a dimmer pack, maybe the processor can live in that, an ETC dealer can research that for you), then the wiring out to the assorted screens. Note that you can get locking covers for the screens as well. Then the Paradigm processor can receive the DMX signal from the Element so you gain additional options with that.

 

[tyler.martin]

Paradigm also needs to be installed, commissioned and programmed by an Authorized ETC technician. The software (LightDesigner) is not publicly available.

Vincent Lighting Systems is the ETC dealer in Pittsburg, if my google-fu is correct about your location. Give them a call.

 

[SteveB]

Paradigm also needs to be installed, commissioned and programmed by an Authorized ETC technician. The software (LightDesigner) is not publicly available.

Vincent Lighting Systems is the ETC dealer in Pittsburg, if my google-fu is correct about your location. Give them a call.

Vincent is “an” ETC dealer in the area. Barbizon is also in Chicago, is an ETC dealer and has a rock solid systems group that can do Paradigm. They are doing my 2 new systems currently, great work from these folks.

 

[soundtech193746]

Do you have DMX controlled dimmers for your house or are they LED? Does the Element currently control your house lights at all?

No the element does not currently control the house lights.

 

[soundtech193746]

BIG, BIG issue to deal with and consider is emergency lighting for the audience/parishioner area - I.E. "House Lights". What's there now ?

If you have a separate system, battery or generated and stand-alone fixtures, that are not part of the house lighting, then continue to step 2.

If the house lighting is also your emergency lighting, then you need to have a consultant help you to integrate the house lights you want dimmed with the need to activate these lights from an emergency power source in the event of a fire or power loss.

Step 2, If you have a separate system, what are the house lights currently ?, and are they LED that can receive DMX or are incandescent needing dimmers ?.

The Paradigm system is a great choice and the LCD screen option is a slick system. You can have a dealer programs the screens for a ton of functions, code activated pages for rehearsals, events, work days, etc.... As well as being able to configure the screen to what you need. Not cheap and at the minimum a 19" rack unit with the Paradigm processor (though if using a dimmer pack, maybe the processor can live in that, an ETC dealer can research that for you), then the wiring out to the assorted screens. Note that you can get locking covers for the screens as well. Then the Paradigm processor can receive the DMX signal from the Element so you gain additional options with that.

There are some lights in the "auditorium" (referring to sanctuary) that do not come on with the light switches. They are setup so that they turn on when power goes out.

To answer your question about the "House Lights" being dimmable or not; I believe they are incandescent. The weird part though, is that there are two switches on the wall to control them. One is labeled "Low" and the other is "Full". So they dim... Is this even installed right? I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't. You did mention "Not cheap". How much do they typically run? I couldn't find much Info online. Thanks so much!!

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

If you're happy with lighting - dimming and all - except it is not controlled by Element, it should be relatively simple to allow same control by Element. If you mean instead you want to add dimming capabilities, there are options but I doubt any are other than expensive. I assume the dim/full switches may just be switching two different circuits on and off. A lot more detail is necessary to make good suggestions and I suspect Paradigm is not the solution.

 

[SteveB]

Cheapest solution might be to replace the incandescent house lights with LED versions that can take a DMX signal, then control them from the Element. You can also add an inexpensive button controller such as ETC Echo that can control the new LED house lights when the Element isn't in use.

Or you end up installing a new dimmer pack for the house lights, plus that pretty Paradigm system. That's expensive.

 

[soundtech193746]

Cheapest solution might be to replace the incandescent house lights with LED versions that can take a DMX signal, then control them from the Element. You can also add an inexpensive button controller such as ETC Echo that can control the new LED house lights when the Element isn't in use.

Or you end up installing a new dimmer pack for the house lights, plus that pretty Paradigm system. That's expensive.

Yes I agree.... How much does Echo typically run? And how would that interface with the Element?

 

[soundtech193746]

If you're happy with lighting - dimming and all - except it is not controlled by Element, it should be relatively simple to allow same control by Element. If you mean instead you want to add dimming capabilities, there are options but I doubt any are other than expensive. I assume the dim/full switches may just be switching two different circuits on and off. A lot more detail is necessary to make good suggestions and I suspect Paradigm is not the solution.

Here is a little more detail for you.. The light board / fixtures are not part of the houselights whatsoever. Currently, the house lights are being controlled by 2 sets of light switches. One labeled High and one labeled Low. So if I'm not mistaken we should be able to dim those right? If paradigm is not the solution.. Then what were you thinking for a system? @SteveB suggested Echo.

 

[soundtech193746]

Cheapest solution might be to replace the incandescent house lights with LED versions that can take a DMX signal, then control them from the Element. You can also add an inexpensive button controller such as ETC Echo that can control the new LED house lights when the Element isn't in use.

Or you end up installing a new dimmer pack for the house lights, plus that pretty Paradigm system. That's expensive.

Since the church is run by old people (in there 80s and 90s) it was hard enough to convince them on some fixtures and the control console. So they probably would not want to relace the bulbs as they just replaced them a month or so ago, so are there any other options like running them into a inexpensive dimmer pack and take that into the console? I don't know.. Also, how would the Echo interface with the Element?

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Echo devices do not now integrate smoothly and easily with a console. If you want entry panel stations around, echo may be useful, but will have some limited flexibility in working with the Element. This is especially true if you don't have dimmers, need them, and use the Echo dimmers.

We don't know for sure if existing lights are incandescent. We don't know if there are dimmers. It's not clear to me if entry panels are needed. Really hard to give good advice.

If the existing fixtures are incandescent and there are no dimmers, I believe for the same qualities - smooth dimming and good color - you can add dimmers for much less than replacing fixtures with LED fixtures. There are good reasons to change to LED, but unlikely cost among them.

 

[microstar]

If the houselights are incandescent and you just need basic remote functionality, you could add a dimmer and one or more Fleenor PRE-10A wall stations, where you can set up 10 preset scenes. When the Element is off, control is at the PRE-10A; when the console is on, the PRE-10A is locked out so no one inadvertently turns lights on during a service. Not a touch screen, but at $500, way cheaper than Paradigm or Echo.
The cost of the dimmer(s) would depend on the wattage of your houselights. Also budget for an electrician and materials. Depending on your building's construction and where things are located, this cost could easily exceed everything else.
http://www.dfd.com/p10a.html

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Bailey - besides the items not stated I noted above, I'm uncertain if you want touch screen operation or control on Element or both. The touch screen provides control but nothing "....to integrate the house lights into the system.." referring to the Element and (LED) pars as a system.

Fixture count, wattage, votlage, and how they are currently fed are all major pieces of this puzzle as well.

Honestly the two switches "full" and "dim" you "thinking" they are incandescent suggest to me the possibility of liklihood these are round fixtures with three or more compact florescent lamps, wired to be be able to turn on 1 or 2 lamps in each fixture. Further could be 277 volt.

Not to be unkind but you need someone who understands performing arts dimming, lighting, and electricity to come to your facility. No question the easy solution is to replace all. A good LED downlight starts around $500 and can go up to $1500 or so each. probably a couple hundred to install and wire each - worst case. Without know if recessed or pendant or surface; without know voltage; and without a lot of other answers; no idea what you are looking at.

Far too early to look at Fleenor this or ETC that.

 

[soundtech193746]

Bailey - besides the items not stated I noted above, I'm uncertain if you want touch screen operation or control on Element or both. The touch screen provides control but nothing "....to integrate the house lights into the system.." referring to the Element and (LED) pars as a system.

Fixture count, wattage, votlage, and how they are currently fed are all major pieces of this puzzle as well.

Honestly the two switches "full" and "dim" you "thinking" they are incandescent suggest to me the possibility of liklihood these are round fixtures with three or more compact florescent lamps, wired to be be able to turn on 1 or 2 lamps in each fixture. Further could be 277 volt.

Not to be unkind but you need someone who understands performing arts dimming, lighting, and electricity to come to your facility. No question the easy solution is to replace all. A good LED downlight starts around $500 and can go up to $1500 or so each. probably a couple hundred to install and wire each - worst case. Without know if recessed or pendant or surface; without know voltage; and without a lot of other answers; no idea what you are looking at.

Far too early to look at Fleenor this or ETC that.

Ok thank you so much for your honesty on the subject. I'm pretty sure that we are having a consultant come in. Thanks for all your input, It really does mean a lot

 

[Brentgi]

Not to beat a dead horse, but here is my suggestion...

The things you'll need for this are (assuming that your fixtures are incandescent):
1) a qualified electrician
2) a reasonably priced wall mount dimmer pack, such as: http://www.leviton.com/en/products/n2408-cd0
3) a contact closure switch, such as: http://touchplate.com/product/classic-series-wall-switch/

Wire your house lights into a DMX controlled dimmer pack. Run DMX from your console to the dimmer pack. attach a contact closure switch to the Element and use it to fire macros to turn the house light on an off. Done.

You can go the route of paradigm or echo but you'll end up spending a lot of money to make this happen, and you'll still need to have your lights on controlled dimmers. But I guess if you've got that kind of cash for lights, you might as well. Just my 2¢.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

Not to beat a dead horse, but here is my suggestion...

The things you'll need for this are (assuming that your fixtures are incandescent):
1) a qualified electrician
2) a reasonably priced wall mount dimmer pack, such as: http://www.leviton.com/en/products/n2408-cd0
3) a contact closure switch, such as: http://touchplate.com/product/classic-series-wall-switch/

Wire your house lights into a DMX controlled dimmer pack. Run DMX from your console to the dimmer pack. attach a contact closure switch to the Element and use it to fire macros to turn the house light on an off. Done.

You can go the route of paradigm or echo but you'll end up spending a lot of money to make this happen, and you'll still need to have your lights on controlled dimmers. But I guess if you've got that kind of cash for lights, you might as well. Just my 2¢.

I agree except the Echo line includes some relatively inexpensive dimmers that could have a very low cost of installation. If they are incandescent or can be dimmed satisfactorily by a phase adaptive dimmer.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I mentioned Echo zone controllers, and avoided the issue they are not DMX. Well, ETC launched the Unison Foundry line today - DMX zone controllers and mini-panels. If your lights are indeed incandescent (or decent dimmable LEDs and your willing to forgo good low end control) the Foundry phase adaptive dimmer zone controllers might a a very economical fit.

I'd had a rumor these were on the way and it looks like some great tools. Several projects bidding now that I wish I could have had these.

Bill