What's in a name?

[Grog12]

Once again a thought struck me while reading another thread:

How important are names to you? Does the term leko suffice or do you want to know that its a Strand Century 6 x 9? What are some of the benefits of using "kleenex terms"? What are some of the cons of using "kleenex terms"?

For this one I'm going to throw the QotD qualifier on Pro's and Realitors please hold off for a week.

 

[seanandkate]

I think it totally depends on context. If you're hanging a plot, "Leko" probably won't quite suffice unless you don't mind having a row of 6x9s on your third FOH. On the other hand, of you're explaining the differences between an ellipsoidal and a fresnel, so long as the characteristics of the instrument are common, then it doesn't matter than much if you say "Leko" as opposed to S4 50 degree. It's certainly a feather in the cap of the company that makes a product so ubiquitous that it becomes the de facto name for an entire category of product. Now I think I'll go grab myself a Molson...

 

[MarshallPope]

I agree that it depends on context. To use an allegory, what about refrigerators? If you're at home, you may ask someone to "go grab me a coke out of the fridge." However, if I'm signing paperwork at the Home Depot, you would probably want to be a little more specific and ask for a "LG Electronics 27.6 Cu. Ft. 4 Door Refrigerator with Auto Open/Close Freezer Drawers" To bring this around to lighting: If you're just talking about your vision for a design, I don't see a thing wrong with saying that "there will be a leko over there with a breakup gobo in it." However, if you are telling someone to go hang it for you, you'd need to specify the light and the gobo and whatever else is necessary.

 

[mstaylor]

In your musing consider other things in our world like C wrenches and channellocks.

 

[shiben]

In your musing consider other things in our world like C wrenches and channellocks.

Good point, Crescent wrench is a fairly common term for an adjustable C Wrench... Anyone else actually have a Crescent wrench? Anyhow, I honestly dont see why its a problem, unless you really want something specific. For example, if you dont care if the "Leko" your ordering is a Strand product, ETC product, or even an original Leko, I see no problem with it. Generally, I have seen the LX crew use more Kleenex terms while the designer's plot has a more specific key, which clearly states what products are needed. As long as you have that, a lot of times Ill see people just yell out the barrel configuration or the PAR lens they want, once all the gear is there... (happens more in college where the venue already owns all the gear thats gonna get used)

 

[Grog12]

So shiben are you trying to say that it doesn't matter if you hang an S4 or an Shakespeare as long as the barrel configuration is correct?

 

[shiben]

So shiben are you trying to say that it doesn't matter if you hang an S4 or an Shakespeare as long as the barrel configuration is correct?

If the entire rig is the same type of instrument, yeah. I guess most of the places I have been or worked have one type of instrument, so its not a huge confusing situation. If a rental shop sends all shakes (not sure who would do such a thing), then calling a shake a leko is not a huge issue. Now obviously, if you have more than 1 kind of ERS in the place, it becomes a different ballgame, but again, all the situations I have worked in (except one and they wouldnt let us even touch the rep plot, much less hang extra instruments) the place has had only one type of ERS.

 

[DuckJordan]

If the entire rig is the same type of instrument, yeah. I guess most of the places I have been or worked have one type of instrument, so its not a huge confusing situation. If a rental shop sends all shakes (not sure who would do such a thing), then calling a shake a leko is not a huge issue. Now obviously, if you have more than 1 kind of ERS in the place, it becomes a different ballgame, but again, all the situations I have worked in (except one and they wouldnt let us even touch the rep plot, much less hang extra instruments) the place has had only one type of ERS.

The biggest issue i have is a lot of this is situational thought on this subject, In the venue i work with right now they have 3 different kinds of ERS Including some new S4's and old lee fixtures, They have the same barrel configs and if i were to hang one of the lee fixtures instead of the S4's I'd probably get "fired".

Now not to hijack this but lets see if we can open it up to sound and other things as well such as: refering to the lows on a speaker you can hear as subs instead of subwoofers, I've even heard speakers refered to as mackies (they were altmans at the time).

While I do agree that it can sometimes make it easier to tell someone "hang that leko over there" it could cause a huge confusion if your in a working environment and you have multiple fixtures being hung that are all the same type but different brands.

As a student I think about what its going to be like in the working world and not what its like now where i am at.

 

[erosing]

Yes it matters. Learned the hard way, when leading a light hang even if the plot has everything differentiated you need to point out the difference. 1 altman is going to look very odd in a wash made up of S4's. Same as if you aren't using the exact same lamp in all your S4 (or any instrument group) you'll probably notice the differences.

Here's something someone thought was a 4'x8' platform, what would you call it? (will post picture later phone won't upload it)

Good examples of this in drill bits and adhesives too.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MNicolai]

Either you can use the wrong term in conversation with people in-the-know and risk criticism, or you can use it front of people not in-the-know who will then learn it that way and will always use that term, regardless of which cases it is or is not appropriate in. For a lot of us in education, our laziness to use the correct terminology sends our students off to careers and colleges looking like fools. (Says the guy who can't break his boss of his desire to use the term "wench" to describe the rigging hoists.)

Jargon and slang terms to describe the inappropriate things is why people who have been folding soft goods for decades cannot agree on what west-coasting and east-coasting are.

 

[derekleffew]

It's been a week, so anyone can answer now, right?

...(Says the guy who can't break his boss of his desire to use the term "wench" to describe the rigging hoists.) ...

I have to stop myself every time from writing/saying chain motor instead of the more proper chain hoist. Others refuse to differentiate between lamp socket and lamp base. Some think I carry a grievance for wire vs. cable, but I really don't. I don't even correct others on lamp/bulb. DMX vs. data, well that's a different thing altogether.

As for brand names and the value therein, see http://www.controlbooth.com/forums/lighting-electrics/21051-end-leko.html .

 

[mstaylor]

I don't get hung up on using brand names for things or even some incorrect names for things, other times it drives me crazy. Calling an adjustable wrench a C wrench, channallocks for slip lock pliers or Kliens for side cutters is no big thing.
I am old enough to call any ERS a Leko even though I have used ECs, 360Qs, Source fours, Shakespeares, axiel and radials of different types. I realize in most local theatres they use one manufacturer per theatre. If I am somewhere that has different types then certainly you have to call it what it is.
A far as calling things that isn't entirely correct the one that comes to mind is three pin stage vs two pin w/ ground.

 

[Grog12]

If the entire rig is the same type of instrument, yeah. I guess most of the places I have been or worked have one type of instrument, so its not a huge confusing situation. If a rental shop sends all shakes (not sure who would do such a thing), then calling a shake a leko is not a huge issue. Now obviously, if you have more than 1 kind of ERS in the place, it becomes a different ballgame, but again, all the situations I have worked in (except one and they wouldnt let us even touch the rep plot, much less hang extra instruments) the place has had only one type of ERS.

You've been lucky to work in a theatre with only one type of ERS. Most every theatre I've set foot in has a mixture. A rental house will send you what you spec. If you spec Leko's and the person is feeling particulalry nasty you might end up with their graveyard fixtures.

Specificity is a good thing especially on the educational level. There are significant differences between an Altman 6x9 360Q and a 36 degree Altman Shakespeare. As designers and technicians you need to understand those differences.

Arez brings up the point of mixing fixtures in a wash a 360q is going to look really weird in a wash of Source 4's.

Source 4 is slowly replacing Leko as the de facto "Kleenex term" for an ERS. But here's the problem. ETC doesn't only make ERS', they make PAR's, PARnel's, Jr ERS' and moving lights.

 

[mstaylor]

Don't stop at lighting and tools, there are other areas of the business that does the same thing. For years I worked with techs that call any XLR connector a Cannon connnector. Many assume XLR is three pin cable and anything else is just called four pin, five pin etc. I'm sure there other examples in sound and video but I am less familiar in those areas.

 

[ruinexplorer]

Yes, I was in the bad habit of saying Neutrik when I meant speakON (NL4 type) for speaker cables.

 

[museav]

Yes, I was in the bad habit of saying Neutrik when I meant speakON (NL4 type) for speaker cables.

Even that is not technically correct as SpeakON is a series with two (NL2), four (NL4) and eight (NL8) pole connectors.

In my experience, there seem to be times when generic terms are acceptable and times when they are not. That usually depends on whether you are referring to things in a generic or specific sense. The difficulty is in whether the other party(s) understand if the terminology is being used in a generic or specific context, that not being clear can cause misunderstandings.

 

[mstaylor]

Another brandname that has become a name of a tool is a Sawsall. Sawsall is made by Milwaukee but has become the reciprecating saw all others are measured from.