Which lighting console do I need next?

[jimmol]

Being a beginner in the realm of consoles, our Elation Stage Setter 24 has been most of what we have needed these past 3 years.

We host a church service in a gym using 14 par lights, submaster settings for ease of use for the person running the board. 6 white, 5 blue, 3 yellow.

I would like to add 4 to 6 Smart Color Pro scrollers to some of the pars and 2 to 4 Right Arms. Since I have not kept up on the lingo, I am at a loss when things are said like DMX512 protocol is needed.

I need your advice as to which console I need to run this equipment and maybe a few more lights while keeping the cost down.

Thanks

 

[TimMiller]

Your stage setter is already a dmx console. Dmx is a digital protocol in which lighting consoles talk to the lights. On the back or your console you have an XLR plug that is labeled data out or dmx out. You can control the color scrollers off of your current console but right arms will not be an easy thing to run. I would look into the possibly a pc based solution such as magic Q or one of elations larger consoles (though I don't have any experience with them).

 

[Les]

The ETC SmartFade ML sounds like a good fit for you if you can swing the budget.

 

[jimmol]

Thanks for the computer suggestion.

I think we would like to move up a notch or two in the console area. Consoles usually don't crash.

 

[TimMiller]

I didn't even think of the smartfade ml. That's a very nice console especially for the price and on a professional level.

 

[jimmol]

The ETC SmartFade ML sounds like a good fit for you if you can swing the budget.

If I had a bunch of moving lights I might be tempted to ask for money for something as this. However the SmartFade 12 and 24 series look to be in my money range but they are advertised as a two scene board and I can find no information about submaster options.

Anyone know if the SmartFade has a SubMaster mode?

If I had money, I would ask for an Element 40, which seems to offer simplicity, sub masters and the ability to handle most anything you need to use.

Thanks for your suggestions

 

[len]

A. PCs don't crash any more or less than a standalone console. The only time pcs crash is either overburden by too many programs or virus. If it's the former, why are you running a bunch of other stuff during a show? If it's a virus, that's a maintenance issue, not a dmx software issue.

B. I still don't think you need a pc based solution. You need more handles for more quick, individual fixture control (assuming you increase your fixture inventory). I doubt those right arms will be moving around more than 1 - 2 x per service. I'd look into a board with more pre-sets, more handles, etc., although I don't know which one that should be.

 

[jimmol]

B. I still don't think you need a pc based solution. You need more handles for more quick, individual fixture control (assuming you increase your fixture inventory). I doubt those right arms will be moving around more than 1 - 2 x per service. I'd look into a board with more pre-sets, more handles, etc., although I don't know which one that should be.

Thanks for confirming what I was thinking. We don't need a computer and I cannot see us moving the lights much during the service except to maybe highlight a soloist.

I am looking at the right arms to help align lights with our stage. We are turning out to have a fluid stage, which keeps the same basic inverted V design but may be smaller or larger depending on the number in the band. When it is smaller, the lights shining on the platforms that we did not set up reflects off the waxed gym floor and on to the backdrop and ceiling. It would be nice to be able to readjust those lights back onto the remaining platforms. (Since I use submasters I would have to reprogram the lights that are missing the program - I rather have the right arms.)

Now back to the question at hand, which console. It would be nice to have many the features of the Element 40 in a console costing $1500.00

 

[LXPlot]

Now back to the question at hand, which console. It would be nice to have many the features of the Element 40 in a console costing $1500.00

If that is your price range, the only thing really comparable as far as I know would be to run Chamsys MagicQ with a mini-wing. It has 10 sliders which I believe can become Submasters (someone verify this, I don't have an actual wing sitting in front of me. It looks like the setting is in Setup>Playback>sub master function). It also has a number of other buttons for programming, and as Len put it, won't crash all that often so long as the computer lacks very much else on it.

 

[chausman]

... as Len put it, won't crash all that often so long as the computer lacks very much else on it.

And ISN'T connected to the Internet.

An Elation Scene Setter 48 might be able to do what you want. I'm not sure how many channels Right Arms or Pro Color scrollers take so it may not have enough channels though.


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[jimmol]

If that is your price range, the only thing really comparable as far as I know would be to run Chamsys MagicQ with a mini-wing. It has 10 sliders which I believe can become Submasters (someone verify this, I don't have an actual wing sitting in front of me. It looks like the setting is in Setup>Playback>sub master function). It also has a number of other buttons for programming, and as Len put it, won't crash all that often so long as the computer lacks very much else on it.

I checked out the MagicQ and does it have to be used with a computer? I downloaded the manual to see how complex it would be to program with the 10 sliders of the mini.

 

[Les]

Yes; all the sliders are is an "expansion wing", so-to-speak. The brains of the operation are within the software.

 

[jglodeklights]

SmartFades do not use the same language as some other consoles, though it is quite fluid when you've gotten it down. Instead of Submasters, they have memories. Their faders act as either channel faders or memories; dependent upon which mode they are set to via a button on the face panel.

 

[gcpsoundlight]

One option could be Martin M-PC. Although it is $800, you can connect your old console to the dmx in and use it for submaster control

 

[jimmol]

SmartFades do not use the same language as some other consoles, though it is quite fluid when you've gotten it down. Instead of Submasters, they have memories. Their faders act as either channel faders or memories; dependent upon which mode they are set to via a button on the face panel.

Thanks for bringing that up. I was able to find some training videos online and as you said they have "scene" or "sub master" via the memory. So the ML would do all that I need. But 2600 to move 2 or 4 Right Arms and a few scroller gels just seems like a bit much.

 

[jimmol]

And ISN'T connected to the Internet.
An Elation Scene Setter 48 might be able to do what you want. I'm not sure how many channels Right Arms or Pro Color scrollers take so it may not have enough channels though.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

If I knew how to set it up to use the Right Arm and gel scrollers I would seriously think about it. It is like we use and the people running it would not have to learn a new system.

I did find some other possible options as I look for elations controllers and started to wonder if I should just get a simple fixture controller and run it separate.

The Elation American DJ DMX Operator, the most basic, can Control up to 12 separate intelligent lights with up to 16 DMX channels per fixture. Has scenes but only 8 sliders which may or may not be a problem. About 200 dollars.

The Elation American DJ DMX Operator 192, also offers 12 fixture control along with scenes. Again only 8 faders, but may be enough. Around 400 dollars.

I also found the DMX Operator Pro which seems to be a hybrid of the two: Features 136 total DMX Channels: 128 channels for Intelligent & 8 Channels for Par Cans; 8 individual fixtures each with 16 DMX channels; 96 programmable scenes; 8 programmable chases with fade and speed control. It too runs around 400 dollars. I will need to get the manual and see if it is something that may work. But it is made by elation, which, according to what I have read is made with good components not the best components. Our simple one has lasted 4 years.

 

[TimMiller]

The operator pro isn't a bad board but I wouldn't use it for nice smooth movements. What i would do is use the scene setter and run cue by cue and make it work. I you program your right arms into cue and run the timing slowly they will track nicely. Unfortunately with all of the cheaper consoles you do not have a fixture library so the console doesn't really know how to handle the fixtures parameters. If you pull everything down to zero that may cause your movers to be pointed up at the ceiling in open white. You also do want to make any mover or accessory move anymore than it has to during a show. It adds lots of noise and isn't good for gel strings if it's a scroller. A church that I know of programmed their Christmas pageant on a dmx operator pro. The poor lady about killed herself trying to do it. It's a great board for bands and djs. Unfortunately if you want to use movers you really need a moving light console.

 

[jimmol]

The operator pro isn't a bad board but I wouldn't use it for nice smooth movements. What i would do is use the scene setter and run cue by cue and make it work. I you program your right arms into cue and run the timing slowly they will track nicely.

I really doubt I will be doing any tracking, more for light adjustment as our stage expands and contract.

Not being really that involved in lighting, except for our Sunday Services, how exactly would you run cue by cue and make it work? I am thinking that you would put it at this location, then this one, then this one, set the time and run the chain of cues for the motion, right?

What I really don't know is how to use the stage setter to make the light move.

Unfortunately with all of the cheaper consoles you do not have a fixture library so the console doesn't really know how to handle the fixtures parameters. If you pull everything down to zero that may cause your movers to be pointed up at the ceiling in open white.

I have noticed that as I looked in the manuals online. Nothing of the cheaper ones listed Right Arm.

You also do want to make any mover or accessory move anymore than it has to during a show. It adds lots of noise and isn't good for gel strings if it's a scroller.

Good point. I would be setting things head of time.

A church that I know of programmed their Christmas pageant on a dmx operator pro. The poor lady about killed herself trying to do it. It's a great board for bands and djs. Unfortunately if you want to use movers you really need a moving light console.

The PRO is supposed to support moving lights, at least up to 8 of them. What I am seeing is that the more expensive ones are very complex with the multiple banks/pages.

I am beginning to wonder if getting an inexpensive moving light console like the Operator 192 (250 dollars) or show designer 1 (750 dollars) for the Right Arms and continue to use my Stage Setter 24 for the lights themselves may be the best idea for now.

 

[jglodeklights]

I am beginning to wonder if getting an inexpensive moving light console like the Operator 192 (250 dollars) or show designer 1 (750 dollars) for the Right Arms and continue to use my Stage Setter 24 for the lights themselves may be the best idea for now.

For what you've described, and your budget, this may actually make sense. In most theatrical situations I find this an extremely frustrating style of set up, thus why I only find it in extremely budget conscious settings. However, you seem to want to PRESET to specific colors and positions. While the Palettes on the SmartFade ML (and better build quality, it is actually VERY VERY well made) may make it easier as you can recall specific focuses and colors, the Operator may work, too. You'd be able to preset your focuses and colors and then use your current board to adjust intensity. I say the the less expensive Operator 192 may actually work, versus the Operator and Designer, since the Joystick for pan/tilt is apparently assignable. I've never used either, but the Designer 1 seems completely reliant on fixture profiles, and I don't believe the joystick channels are assignable. Thus, without a profile for the Right Arm or scroller, you wouldn't be able to use it effectively, especially the Right Arm.

BTW: SmartFadeML's should only run you $2310-$2365 according to both Philadelphia Theatrical Supply and Production Advantage's websites. Not a HUGE difference in absolute terms, but $300 is still 11.54% of 2600 and 13% of 2300. Keep in mind, you can also, like the Scene Designer, back up to a computer, but via USB versus RS Serial (outmoded completely) as well as control the board from a computer. With the SmartSoft software, you can much more easily patch channels and fixtures than with the board itself.

 

[ruinexplorer]

For your budget and needs, I'd suggest the Zero88 Jester ML24. As a user of many other consoles, sometimes I found the syntax for programming backward from what I was used to, but since you don't have as many habits, it may work great. It definitely has a lot of punch for the price. I had used the next step up in the line and it fell within your budget, so this one should as well.