Wiring Extension Cables
- Thread starterjaamulberry
- Start date
WooferHound's post doesn't make any sense to me in this thread about power extension cords. Perhaps there is some confusion and this is describing converting a data cable extension of some sort into a gender changing data cable. I've never heard anyone give gender atributes to a "wire" (conductor) before.
I think what Woofer is saying is that SJ and SO cable (as example) has a "male" end and a "female" end, in that if you are using an Edison or Twist receptacle, using the male end of the cable on a male plug allows the conductors to line up with the correct connections in the connector, without having to twist the hot or neutral around. Doesn't matter as much in a 2P&G pin connector.
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Correction: "There is a Male and Female end on the cable."
See cable, Capital End and cable, Period End. The more conductors, the more important the distinction becomes.
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No one has authoritatively answered post#15 above.
jaamulberry
Member
I don't mean to offend so I apologize if my post did that. What I mean is that if you do a google search for how to wire electrical cable you get more buy results than helpful ways to do it. It is not easy to find a step by step picture or video of how to wire cable and the reasoning behind it. Everything is kept convoluted so that the normal "user" won't attempt.
jaamulberry
Member
This makes so much sense now that I read about it. I always wondered why I had to cross wires under but this makes it clear. I actually figured this out myself a couple days ago but the reasoning makes sense now.
Thank you.
Roger L. Lattin
Member
When all else FAILS, read the INSTRUCTIONS that came with the connector!!!! I realize that we are talking about an older style NEMA twist BUT there is a proper orientation of the cable when putting connectors on to the cable. There is a detailed list of instructions printed on and inside the box for all connectors that the manufactures MUST include when selling per UL. If you don not read and follow the instructions in a "neat and workman like manner" you have violated the listing for that wiring device, IT IS THEN IMPROPERLY INSTALLED!!! The other personal pet peeve of mine PUT THE SCREW GUN AWAY, LOOK at the instructions for the proper torquing requirements!!!!
Dionysus
Well-Known Member
Hello!
Making a couple of cables is one thing but if you're making several hundred to equip a new theatre all the little tricks count.
Note: All of the following is written from a North American perspective.
Typically your raw cable is supplied in 250', 500' or 1,000' put-ups.
Cut all the longest cables first then work on down to the shorties.
This lets you make best use of remnants as there's normally a +/- tolerance on the lengths of standard put-ups.
When you're pulling cable off a reel, or out of a carton, it will all be the same direction, male end/female end, keep it this way so when you're putting ends on you don't have to keep checking every cable you pick up.
When you've cut all of a given length, and before you've coiled them, put a couple of ties on one end, one about a foot back and another five or six feet back. Next, coil or figure-eight and, in a similar manner, add two ties to the opposite end.
There's a big difference between schlepping fifty or a hundred pre-cut 5 or 10 footers v.s. the same number of 50 or 100 footers.
How you deal with this much cable in a pile I'll leave up to you.
Sometimes it's easier to go to the cable than to move it to you.
Why do I suggest two ties at the ends?
1 - It helps keep the ends from turning into the beginnings of a huge knot.
2 - When you're ready to add connectors, you can remove the tie closest to the end and you'll have enough free cable to add colour codes and install connectors while the second tie will keep things together and organized. After all of a given end is complete, add a tie to keep the finished ends under control.
Repeat with the other end.
Doing a bunch of the same end helps with efficiency as you become part of the machine.
Having all of your pre-cut cables oriented the same way is now a SERIOUS plus.
Slide a correct cap over every end prior to stripping and connecting.
Don't forget to add 'clear heat-shrink' if it's going to be part of color-coding your lengths.
Invest in a good stripper for the outer jacket along with a good stripper for the inner conductors.
Stippers with stops you can preset will become your friends.
Even when you're bored to tears and your eyes are glazing over, it's good to be able to install the green wire in the green terminal and have the black and white conductors know where they're going, even when you're well on your way to being in a trance.
Of course you're going to look everything over carefully before you button things up but every little thing helps.
Wire all of the connectors.
Visually inspect all of the connectors.
Assemble all of the connectors including cable grips.
Test every cable prior to having 'cable coiling class' when you teach the joys of 'over-under' coiling everything longer than the length of your choosing.
An adapter from house-hold to your connector, along with an adapter from your connector back to house-hold, will let you use a common three-lamp receptacle tester for speedy cable testing.
Plugging the two adapters together will let you test the adapters BEFORE you test your cables.
O.K., I've dashed this off in a bit of a hurry so pile on in and point out any / all flaws and errors.
My wife's hollering, got to go.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
Okay, I'll bite. Why NOT use a power screwdriver to assist in the task of turning the screw(s)? Then finish with a standard driver.
What IS the manufacturer's specification regarding the torque setting for inner terminals, strain-relief, and cover-plate screws on a Union Connector or Bates 2P&G-20A connector? I've never seen this information; granted last time I installed connectors was a few years ago, but the 2P&G s came individually wrapped (like Kraft Singles) in a clear plastic bag. No instructions enclosed for this UL-Listed apparatus.
Dionysus
Well-Known Member
If you finish with a standard driver it's no problem, but the screws are so short it's just as quick to use a standard driver.
The power screwdriver will tend to slip, under-torque or over-torque this kind of electrical connection. When putting solid wire on a screw terminal like when installing recepticles and switches I haven't had a problem.
With a hand driver you can feel when it is tight enough and not too tight. With the power driver you can't really.
Most connectors DO come with instructions (usually in the box; perhaps your supplier never sent it on), the main thing to note is the specific amounts to strip for the jacket and the conductor insulation. I've NEVER used a specific torque setting, nor have I known ANY electrician to do so (with this kind of connection; I do for certain things normally MUCH BIGGER). Don't think I've LOOKED AT the instructions since I was a 'kid', except for things like heat-trace wire connectors which are PICKY and manufacturer specific.
Don't know, who supervised and instructed them while doing so? Hold your fingers out and in doing so show how there is a male and female end of the cable. That's the first concern in priority in fixing how such a thing could happen. Education/Supervision.
Yes if all gear is tested and correct in just not plugging the correct side of the cable male/female it will function and possibly be fine, but what happens later perhaps years from now when one needs to make say a 5' jumper into an adaptor to another sort of plug? All could still be fine still or perhaps not dependant on the plug/power type. This much less years from now if someone should need to replace one of the plugs and with or without the same amount of supervision but without physically metering out the cable? One doing it properly in the future might cross over wires (hopefully ground thru the center at least) and than reverse what is for now parallel wired to the same terminals.
Probably safe for the show but I would if not so large that you cannot track down or open up all, fix the problem.
Also a concern of if supervision was given in reverse wiring, was it also given to tension on screw terminals in something to check and or in general. Often a complete inventory inspection is a good thing in catching problems.
(What is the proper torque setting for 2P&G-20A?
Interesting that this subject has arisen, as I've just learned a major company with multiple shows here in Las Vegas requires the use of a torque screwdriver when installing power connectors. The person quoted a specific setting, but couldn't tell me where it came from.
I'm pretty sure ETC 's (and others') assembly dept. is not turning all the screws on all their connectors by hand .
Thanks for any input,
Derek)
I’m certain that ETC is using crimp plugs so that’s a non-starter for the most part, they might do screw type plugs if asked to, but you would have to ask them. (Factory crimped plugs are also a bad thing - means a one time only use of the plug you paid for.)
Tough enough to get employees to buy their own basic hand tools, much less quality ones. What you mean the 3/16" slotted blade tip won’t do for the terminal on an Edison plug? And at times noting someone using a [HASHTAG]#1[/HASHTAG] Phillips tip type stuff. I would consider a torque wrench or screw driver to be something beyond a normal employee owned thing to provide. Even I don’t own a torque wrench - though I have one for CamLoc and another for 60A stage in my tool box, than many more in the shop tool box including socket torque adaptors that are pre-set and not adjustable. If the company provides such tools, than that is a whole different mandate and could be enforced. Otherwise with a torque screw driver, there is various brands and qualities of them out there - how does one ensure calibration this much less people tensioning until it clicks?
Easy enough to determine an in-house shop specific torque setting for a 20a stage pin plug screw terminal somewhere between the flow point of the metal and too loose. Might even be a specific torque setting in the instructions for the plug - don’t remember but very possible to cover legal type liability. I know I use that specified torque setting for 60a stage pin plugs and used to every year open up every plug and re-tension them, but we don’t use 5Kw Fresnels that much any longer in checking these days.
Even with a ferrule and proper torque tension on a 60a stage pin plug, re-torqeing of the plug every year saves it from melt down. Properly crimped ring terminal type plugs if lock washer used is not necessary if the screw was installed properly.
Even on a 30A plug tensioned as hard as one can, re-tensioning of the terminals is often required after initial installation. Wire expands and contracts under high amperage load and once settled it will now be loose until heated up enough to expand again at best in proper tension - this causes resistance and can damage the plug. Really hard to get back to re-tension a cable after initial use in a large shop, best one can do is the rattle test... if it rattles it’s loose. Stage pin plugs rattle by way of construction so that test is useless on them.
Can also be an argument on torque setting on circuit breakers and Marathon blocks for this concept of proper torque setting. Some manuals require I think a re-tension of the terminal to torque after full loading. Also impossible to get done so you over-tighten or as tight as you can and hope it all works out.
Have not other than for small projects, tensioned the brass screws on a stage pin by hand for years. Used to use a 3.6v Panasonic cordless screwdriver, than switched to a 7.2v DeWalt later. No power tool other than a corded one is ensured of providing the proper torque clutch setting on a terminal, and that than depends on the user. Depends on angle of bit, wear on the bit, pressure on the screw, speed, battery life and how warn the clutch is. Got two cordless drills currently in the factory repair shop due to clutch problems.
I do use cordless screwdrivers though for doing plugs - can fabricate hundreds of cables a day with their use and I have made or supervised the fabrication of thousands of stage pin plugs amongst many other types. All tools I use for this have a blade lock and we still follow the policy of 1/4 turn past hand tight for such brass screws or as hard as you can get for others. In this case, we have the clutch set for tension, than twist the drill afterwards to manually finish tensioning the screw. This or dependant on the terminal and project switch to a 1/4" or larger flat heat screw driver to do the final tension.
1/4 Turn past hand tight is my policy but is dependant on an agreement of what is hand tight. For me, it’s a policy of - I don’t care who you are or how much experience you have, unless me or someone I have trained has tested what your tension is you don’t get to install or fix plugs. This at least in the shop as best I can enforce. Was a lot easier years ago in a smaller company and where people were filtered thru my department for training. For the most part though... everyone is in theory trained properly except for the free lancers that I cannot do too much about. Often have more problems with strip length overall than loose screws, though I even by "trained" people at times find problems with tension.
It’s almost impossible to ensure everyone anywhere will do quality work. The requirement of a torque screwdriver might be a management level "fix" to poor workmanship we all live with. "Ferrules, I don’t have any so I will just shove the wire in" type workmanship. Such a requirement if true from some shop I would hope is provided, and everyone using it is trained in the use of it. Kind of simplistic solution to a basic wiring problem though. If one provides the tool, and trains one in the use of it, one doesn’t really need to provide the tool in that the person trained already will tension the screw terminal properly with or without a torque setting. Someone that isn’t properly trained in the use of the tool and or plug cannot be assured of properly tensioning the screw anyway so why give them one?
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Ok, well, at the risk of getting involved in a discussion that could roast me [no pun intended], I will tell you what I know about from the ETC end.
We used battery operated screwdrivers with clutches in them to drive home screws for both wiring devices on connectors and connector bodies. These are not torque specific or calibrated but we have also not had large quantities of issues either. Note that we terminate literally hundreds of connections a day between plug in boxes, connector strips and adapter cables. I am referring to cable-mounted connectors, specifically.
Also be aware that most torque settings on equipment and devices are provided so that the threaded fasteners [in this case, a screw] is not over-torqued thus causing it to be stretched or sheared. We have talked about under-torqueing, which give you a loose, and soon to fail, connection, but not the other way around.
There are some torque settings listed for specific connectors, but not all connectors have them. Here's what we found:
Small Hubble connector bodies for Edison and small twist lock (HBL5266C & HBL4570C) have 12 lb-in (1.36 N-m) on all screws.
Larger Hubble connector bodies (HBL2070, HBL2313, HBL2411, HBL2413 HBL2431, HBL2511, HBL282) all had terminals screws at 18 lb-in (2.1 N-m), side body screws at 10 lb-in (1.1 N-m), cable clamp screws at 16-20 lb-in (1.8 – 2.3 N-m).
Pro Pin Male stage pin has 12 lb-in for terminals and cover screws. As Ship pointed out, we use crimp-on pins for stage pin devices therefore terminal wiring torques are not needed for our work.
What do I personally do? If I have a tool with a clutch, I use it and then check the screw by hand [I have a calibrated torque meter built in to my wrist]. If I only have a hand tool, I use it. I think the point here is to always know how to use tools and use them appropriately, no matter if it is a screwdriver, hammer, or meter.
David
We used battery operated screwdrivers with clutches in them to drive home screws for both wiring devices on connectors and connector bodies. These are not torque specific or calibrated but we have also not had large quantities of issues either. Note that we terminate literally hundreds of connections a day between plug in boxes, connector strips and adapter cables. I am referring to cable-mounted connectors, specifically.
Also be aware that most torque settings on equipment and devices are provided so that the threaded fasteners [in this case, a screw] is not over-torqued thus causing it to be stretched or sheared. We have talked about under-torqueing, which give you a loose, and soon to fail, connection, but not the other way around.
There are some torque settings listed for specific connectors, but not all connectors have them. Here's what we found:
Small Hubble connector bodies for Edison and small twist lock (HBL5266C & HBL4570C) have 12 lb-in (1.36 N-m) on all screws.
Larger Hubble connector bodies (HBL2070, HBL2313, HBL2411, HBL2413 HBL2431, HBL2511, HBL282) all had terminals screws at 18 lb-in (2.1 N-m), side body screws at 10 lb-in (1.1 N-m), cable clamp screws at 16-20 lb-in (1.8 – 2.3 N-m).
Pro Pin Male stage pin has 12 lb-in for terminals and cover screws. As Ship pointed out, we use crimp-on pins for stage pin devices therefore terminal wiring torques are not needed for our work.
What do I personally do? If I have a tool with a clutch, I use it and then check the screw by hand [I have a calibrated torque meter built in to my wrist]. If I only have a hand tool, I use it. I think the point here is to always know how to use tools and use them appropriately, no matter if it is a screwdriver, hammer, or meter.
David
