Control/Dimming New (used) Console

[LavaASU]

Hey guys. We're looking for a new lighting console. It can (and likely will be) used as our budget is usually way too tight . Almost all of our shows are busking, and can be anything from rock bands, to talent shows, to choir concerts, to theatre, to fashion shows. We currently have and EDI Bijou 48/96, some kind of 2 scene, and a usb to DMX box for MagicQ. We use the Bijou for most shows. The MagicQ tends to not work well due to busking, and sometimes a lack of a laptop, plus the learning curve is way too high for those moments where we need one of the crew to cover for a few minutes.

Current Rig:
-14-20 conventionals (run off 4 channel shoe-box dimmers)
-12 LED pars (3 channels each)
-12 40" LED bars (not sure on channels, but I think it's at least 3 segments)
- an assortment of scanners and effects lights (usually no more that 2-4 per show)

Future-proof Rig (as large as we'd possibly do on a given show):
- 32 conventionals
- 36 LED pars
- 24 LED Bars
- 4 scanners
- 8 moving heads

Requirements:
- 24+ subs
- Ability to record effects to subs
- Ability to run channels as HTP (intensity channels) or LTP (movers)
- Encoders
- Either built in effects engine or pretty easy way to build effects with fades, ect (basically we need ballyhoos, can-cans, color and gobo effects... a total of 6-12 effects between movers and LEDs)
- Can be set up in a way someone can run it with minimal training (we have lots of volunteers/ less experienced crew)
- "bullet-proof"-- basically our gear tends to see touring level abuse due to volunteers/ weather/ less than ideal storage and transport/ ect.
- CAN NOT be PC based (mostly due to theft concerns... a laptop is a LOT more likely to grow legs than a console... other issue is games and internet.

Oh, and the budget is well under $1000 (exact budget would depend on how well it fits our needs).

 

[Pie4Weebl]

if you can muster up 10K, an M1 one would an amazing desk for your current and future needs.

 

[LavaASU]

if you can muster up 10K, an M1 one would an amazing desk for your current and future needs.

Unfortunately 10k would never happen :-(. We're kinda strange in that we use a 1-2 year ROI, so price and functionality now is important over extensive futureproofing/ longevity.

We also GENERALLY prefer "throw-away" type stuff for most things (not necessarily a console though) as fixing stuff eats up too much of the senior crew's time. Extension cords, data, mic, power strips, ect are the cheapest that will work and get thrown away when they have issues. Most fixtures are the cheapest that meet the bill as well and will only be repaired if it can be done in-house easily. On the other hand we do have a lot of older gear that we've repaired, but older stuff is WAY easier to work on than any modern gear.

A couple of consoles I'm interested in if I can find them cheap enough are the Strand 500 i series and the ETC expression/insights. A dedicated ML console would be a possibility (I'd be looking at a hog 250/600/500 for that), but definately less than ideal as it's a second console we have to move/ store/ setup.

 

[Pie4Weebl]

If you are looking at hog, I would look at a hog 1K on the lowend, or a used IPC or road hog on the higer end. Stay clear of used Hog IIs though!

And there is no reason you couldn't run everything on the hog!

 

[Goph704]

Okay, I'm gonna kick myself for this, But have you thought about a ETC Smart fade? It's not the most durable board out there but your learning curve would be not be horrible coming from the EDI, and I just saw a used one sold for 1,080. You'd have all the play room you need ( 24 movers and 48 channels, 1 universe) and a board you can lock up pretty easily. It has an Encoder and I think there's a way to build effects on it. Anyway, It's worth checking out even though you want to do a dealer test of it before you buy. I jumped in with one coming from a Strand 520i, and found myself getting lost pretty easily. But then again those two consoles are feel like they are worlds apart.

Lighting solutions for Theatre, Film & Television Studios and Architectural spaces : ETC

 

[LavaASU]

If you are looking at hog, I would look at a hog 1K on the lowend, or a used IPC or road hog on the higer end. Stay clear of used Hog IIs though!

And there is no reason you couldn't run everything on the hog!

The hog is a pretty big pain to busk conventionals/LEDs on. I used it twice with conventionals and/or LEDs and started using a 2nd console for conventionals after that. It's not easy enough to do on-the-fly bumps and flash and trash due to the small number of faders. That said I love the hog 2 for movers (not as big of a fan of the 1ks, but can use them).

The smartfade actually doesn't have enough channels. The LED bars use at least 9 channels each so thats way over the channel count without the other LEDs or any conventionals. It'd be ok for the movers I guess.

What do you guys think about a strand 300 with tracker software? I believe they use an external track ball which would do about as much good as the single encoder. The good thing about them is that they're modular so on most shows we could use a single fader panel, but of larger ones we could use more. My concerns aside from how hard it would be to do the effects, is whether it would hold up well being set up and torn down almost daily.

 

[xander]

It's true the Smartfade ML can only control 24 multiparameter fixtures and 48 conventionals, so that is out of the question. You are not going to find a Strand 500 for $1000, nor a Hog. Plus I would not recommend the 500 for busking movers. Yes it can do movers (really well considering its age) but not on the fly. It is designed for cuing a stack. So follows that the 300 is the same. And you would be even worse off because you are losing the vast majority of the mover capability of the 500 when you downgrade. ETC's Express(ion) family is also out of the question. Quite frankly I don't know if there is a way to meet your requirements under $1K. The closest you are going to come is a PC-based solution, which you don't want, but might be the only way.

-Tim

 

[icewolf08]

What do you guys think about a strand 300 with tracker software? I believe they use an external track ball which would do about as much good as the single encoder. The good thing about them is that they're modular so on most shows we could use a single fader panel, but of larger ones we could use more. My concerns aside from how hard it would be to do the effects, is whether it would hold up well being set up and torn down almost daily.

As mentioned before, you DO NOT want to go near the Strand 300 series desks. First of all, there were not to many released out into the wild. Second, the is a good reason that the people who have them are getting rid of them. Unite their older brothers, the 500 series, the 300s have not really stood the test of time. They were just not built very well and it doesn't take much to physically beat the crap out of them. Most of the ones that I have seen still being used have some kind of functional problems like buttons that don't work or bad drives, and many other issues. Not a console you want to be packing in and out of trucks and cars and setting up and tearing down on a regular basis.

This is all not to mention the fact that they are completely unsupported by the manufacturer now. They are also not designed to do what you describe.

 

[jglodeklights]

It really sounds like the least expensive thing you will be able to buy that does what you want it to do is an ETC Element, which is much more than $1000. I can't really recall of anything, even used, in the $1000 price range that will make happy all of your needs. Even my theater's used Express 48/96 was $2500. And that doesn't have enough channels for what you would do. A console really is one of those things you need to just suck up and pay the bucks for.

 

[Amishplumber]

I think you're right in looking towards old etc expressions. Its not going to meet every single one of your requirements, but it is going to get pretty close. The one thing I'm not sure about is if you'll be able to record effects to subs. I know you can't do it on an Expression 1x, but haven't used the 2x or 3x extensively enough to know if those will do it. The 1x also has no moving light controls, while its bigger brothers do. I say find a used Expression 2x.

A quick ebay search revealed a 1x for much less than $1k and a 3x with a buy it now price of $3200. So you might be able to find a 2x for about $1500 then?

 

[Pie4Weebl]

expression consoles are not moving light consoles, especially for concerts.

An insight II is a great desk to rock out a bunch of pars with, but I wouldn't use it for anything more complicated.

 

[TimMiller]

Sounds like what you really need is an avolites pearl. You probably won't find one for less than 3k used. I would go for at least a pearl 2004 but a 2000 will also do the job. It has plenty of conventional handles up top the you can busk your movers below or record everything into a cue stack or theater shows.

 

[coldnorth57]

Have you tryed here???
Used Lighting - Used Stage & Theatrical Lighting Equipment, LED Lighting, Trussing
Over 100 used lighting board at many different prices.

 

[Binski99]

Sounds like what you really need is an avolites pearl. You probably won't find one for less than 3k used. I would go for at least a pearl 2004 but a 2000 will also do the job. It has plenty of conventional handles up top the you can busk your movers below or record everything into a cue stack or theater shows.

I'm with Tim on this one. I have not used a Pearl hands on, but I have been messing around with the simulator software that is available and it seems really nice. Seems like it can do everything you could possibly throw at it.

 

[shiben]

I'm with Tim on this one. I have not used a Pearl hands on, but I have been messing around with the simulator software that is available and it seems really nice. Seems like it can do everything you could possibly throw at it.

I think a Hog 1000 might suit your needs still. Its not as easy to busk conventionals on, but if you get decent with groupings and the paging and the like, its really not bad at all, IMO. I have used it to busk shows on a rig with 100 conventional instruments, 4 I Cues, 22 scrollers, and it worked great for me. Basically, you have to choose what specials you want on page one and what specials you want on page two, etc. Only problem I have ever had is it doesnt layer things well, meaning you cant try and make it do more than one thing at once or it gets a bit mad (IE, change color and intensity parameters at the same time). Its probably cheap, better than a used Hog II, and if someone wants to steal it, well, they are morons.

 

[TimMiller]

Hogs do have their occasional layering glitches but the op says he needs handles, that is not something you will have on a hog 1000. I would stay far away from the hog 2's due to parts not being made anymore due to the components being discontinued. That's the reason why their price has dropped mor than half in the last year or so. This is one thing I really like about the avolites consoles is that their parts are interchangable. Say you have a pearl 2000 and the motherboard goes out in a big puff of smoke. You can get another pearl 2000 motherboard or you can go with one on a pearl 2004/2008/2010 to take advantage of newer features such as USB storage.

 

[bishopthomas]

All of these posts are to say that you're not going to get what you want/need in a console "well under $1000."

 

[shiben]

All of these posts are to say that you're not going to get what you want/need in a console "well under $1000."

Exactly. Can you get one for under 1000? Sure. However, you will have to decide if you want to make a sacrifice in your price range and get everything you want (A Pearl), Most of your functionality and price but less subs than you want (A Hog 1000) or control (something throw away from Elation or whatever). At that point, its decision time and you make your choice based on your best possible options and cost, I guess.

 

[Esoteric]

You can also look at giving up features (like actual buttons and coders) and get what you need well under $1000 (closer to $300) by going with computer control. But, whatever you do, for under $1k you are going to give up some kind of functionality.

 

[mstaylor]

My first thought was a Pearl. It is far easier to busk on than others that are going to fit your needs.