Do you recommend the 510 course? Sapsis is installing our fall arrest system this summer. I'd love to get some good training, does the 510 course cover fall arrest?I have on occasion gotten flack for wearing a harness while in a boom lift and insisting on not moving while up. I just go about my business quietly, i figure i probably wont change a lot of the old hats minds, but if i do my job well i will hopefuly still leave a good impression.
My school has also made a big commitment to safety over the past year. we are upgrading our facility to be fully OSHA compliant and last month I attended an OSHA 510 course for Construction Safety in which i learned a great deal.
While taking the course we had an OSHA inspector come in to speak with us, and I asked him what his thoughts were on theatres, briefly describing what it is we do. he was shocked to learn the extent to which theatres are essentially continuous construction projects, and he said that he would be more likely to site violations in a permanent construction facility (theatre), because there is absolutely no excuse for improper training or facilities. He also said that just because we are unpaid students does not relieve the institution from the employee employer relationship, and hed likely site anyway. That may not actually hold up in court, but reguardless in my opinion any college or highschool should be held just as responsible as any professional theatre or shop.
I feel very strongly on the subject and in the coming year will be working on creating a full safety standard packet for our theatre which will be a comprehensive list of expectations for all students and employees, as part of my senior thesis project.
I am also very glad to hear professionals on this website who have made commitments to provide good examples for younger members, I believe that the only way for the risk taking culture to change is from the top down, the supervisors have to be safe before the workers will ever completely try.
Senior Technicians/Stagehands and Harness Use
- Thread starterJezza
- Start date
Lucky, they're the best.
They also offer rigging seminars.
http://www.sapsis-rigging.com/seminars.html
Yes, but all those listed have already passed, and are not nearby.
Say, their store is 5 minute drive from my house. Would it be plausible that if I dropped by some day they'd mind giving me a short run-down?
I mean, I doubt it, since rigging is dangerous territory, and they'd be providing a service for free, but I thought it was worth a shot to get some instruction from the best.
Good idea, thanks.
lightbyfire
Member
The 510 course is a little in depth if your just going for fall arrest. It is also somewhat tailored to the general construction industry and thus is more about railings and hole covers. Also the course essentially just covers matiral from the CFR 29 OSHA 1926 standard, Subpart M, which is one of the easier sections and is available free on OSHA's website. So it is more about the governing standards than about actual practice.
As far as actual training, I believe Miller does onsight training although I may be wrong. I would also imagine that Sapsis will provide some form of onsight training if they are doing an install.
(also, otherwise yes I highly recomend the 510 for anyone intersted in safety, particularly if you are in a position that has the authority to help make a safer work environment where you work.)
As far as actual training, I believe Miller does onsight training although I may be wrong. I would also imagine that Sapsis will provide some form of onsight training if they are doing an install.
(also, otherwise yes I highly recomend the 510 for anyone intersted in safety, particularly if you are in a position that has the authority to help make a safer work environment where you work.)
I was hoping they'd provide some onsite training, but since it's during the summer I thought I'd probably end up with zilch. They aren't required to provide training though, right? It's just a courtesy to the client?
(Also, as a side note, they "are proud to be associated with the following projects", us included.
)I commend you for your safety efforts. A couple tidbits from my past research on the suject:
Students are not covered by OSHA (as mentioned earlier). If they are paid for their work they may be, depending on situation (though I don't recall if work-study or graduate assistants would be OSHA covered or not).
OSHA is a Federal bureau. It does not have oversight of State governments or other Federal operations. If you go a state school, your state Occupational Safety rules might apply, but OSHA does not. The military, police forces, etc do not have to follow OSHA rules.
Yes, it's true we _might_ fall into the construction rule section, but most of the time (ie not the two heavy days of load-in, etc) we fall into the "General Industry" section.
Remember there are exceptions for performance spaces (about the stage edge, etc) during a performance. But if I remember the rules correctly, for theatre to truly be following the "letter of the law" we'd have to have a ridgid handrail across the edge of the stage ALL OF THE TIME, EXCEPT for performances. Yes, that would mean during all rehearsals.
OSHA doesn't pay much attention to our industry. We're small, and are relatively safe (as compared to heavy industry). But just as the recent Rigging and Electricial certification programs have illustrated, we have to self-regulate before Big Brother comes in and gives us rules we cannot follow and do our jobs.
This discussion has reminded me that I want to go back and look up more of this. To the original poster, thank you for starting this thread. We are all guilty on occasion of the old "you didn't see me do this this way." Let's all be honest with ourselves, that's teaching the wrong thing.
Remember, no light is worth a life.
--Sean
In addition to the limits of OSHA regulations listed above. Most of the time OSHA or State safety rules tend to apply to operations that have a minimum of 20 employees, in the area of concern. Let's say you are, Hmmmm Artists Repertory Theatre. Yes you have over 20 employees in total, but in the Production areas you only have a total of 4 full time and the rest are overhire. We do not fall into the OSHA jurisdiction. Now I would NEVER use this as an excuse to shirk on safety or belittle my crews for trying to be more safety concious. Just a bit of info to throw out there
Basicly, OSHA was founded to make sure that men do not fall into hot laddles of molten steel and scafold does not fall down and kill 38 people. For those of us who have worked in a heavy industry were OSHA inspections are a monthly, weekly, and sometimes daily thing (I worked for an communications contractor for a period of time working in Oil refinerys and steel mills), you get to the point were you spend just as much if not more time getting the proper gear on before you go out then it takes to do the actual job. When you have to put on a fire retardant blue suit, steel toed metatarsals, hard hat, safety goggles, and usually a fall arrest if you are doing anything at heights or involves climbing a ladder, you look at what we have to do to be safe and think nothing of it. All that gear is required (minus the fall arrest) just to walk around the refinery. Oh, and you can not have any facial hair either, or wear rings or any other piece of jewelry.
OSHA pays more attention to the industrial pits simply because you can get killed or hurt there WAY faster then in a theatre. When nearly everything around you is flammable and there is fire around you as well, you take things to heart really quick.
What Rigger?
I'm so fly....I Neverland.
In addition to the limits of OSHA regulations listed above. Most of the time OSHA or State safety rules tend to apply to operations that have a minimum of 20 employees, in the area of concern. Let's say you are, Hmmmm Artists Repertory Theatre. Yes you have over 20 employees in total, but in the Production areas you only have a total of 4 full time and the rest are overhire. We do not fall into the OSHA jurisdiction. Now I would NEVER use this as an excuse to shirk on safety or belittle my crews for trying to be more safety concious. Just a bit of info to throw out there
While the above is true, there's also written into the OSHA fall protection regulations what's commonly referred to as 'common sense'. It's hard to find, but read carefully, it's there. In a nutshell, it tells you that you should use whatever is the most stringent rule, and if you feel the need for it, use protection even if rules don't specifically call for it. For example: State OSHA says 'Use X protection'. Fed OSHA says 'Use X protection plus additional safety Y'. Employer policy says "Use X, Y, AND Z".
Now, even though employer policy is not necessarily the same as the law, if your employer's policy is the most stringent, you use employer policy.
You maybe can't change the minds of idiots who think they're tougher than gravity. But we all have to strap a set of brass ones on and try. Ethics demands this.
My response to dummies who don't use fall protection is this: "You can see with 100% accuracy into the future and guarantee me you won't fall? Or do you just consider yourself expendable because your family/children and friends don't want you to come home?"
You can't step to that. Not at all. Take it from me, the guy who chooses to be a rigger in LA/Orange County- a place on top of an earthquake fault. I'm not takin' ANY chances.
While the above is true, there's also written into the OSHA fall protection regulations what's commonly referred to as 'common sense'. It's hard to find, but read carefully, it's there. In a nutshell, it tells you that you should use whatever is the most stringent rule, and if you feel the need for it, use protection even if rules don't specifically call for it. For example: State OSHA says 'Use X protection'. Fed OSHA says 'Use X protection plus additional safety Y'. Employer policy says "Use X, Y, AND Z".
Now, even though employer policy is not necessarily the same as the law, if your employer's policy is the most stringent, you use employer policy.
You maybe can't change the minds of idiots who think they're tougher than gravity. But we all have to strap a set of brass ones on and try. Ethics demands this.
My response to dummies who don't use fall protection is this: "You can see with 100% accuracy into the future and guarantee me you won't fall? Or do you just consider yourself expendable because your family/children and friends don't want you to come home?"
You can't step to that. Not at all. Take it from me, the guy who chooses to be a rigger in LA/Orange County- a place on top of an earthquake fault. I'm not takin' ANY chances.
I don’t believe that there is a minimum number of employees for the applicability of the OSHA Health and Safety Standards. I could not find any such statement in 29 CFR 1910 for General Industry, nor could I find it in 29 CFR 1926 Construction Industry (unless it is listed under some other general heading). (CFR = Code of Federal Regulations)
I believe that some specific recordkeeping and reporting requirements under OSHA may not apply to industries below some set number of employees. OSHA also exempts many industries from certain reporting and record keeping requirements (and theaters apparently fall under this exempted set). Coincidentally, many of the industries that have these reduced reporting requirements are small businesses, which leads to the appearance that the exclusion applies to small companies.
Joe
I believe that some specific recordkeeping and reporting requirements under OSHA may not apply to industries below some set number of employees. OSHA also exempts many industries from certain reporting and record keeping requirements (and theaters apparently fall under this exempted set). Coincidentally, many of the industries that have these reduced reporting requirements are small businesses, which leads to the appearance that the exclusion applies to small companies.
Joe
Two notes on OSHA...
Federal law says if a state decides to write it's own safety standards they must exceed OSHA. So it's actually:
- "OSHA says you must do X"
-"State safety code says you must do at least X and maybe also Y"
Also the guy teaching my safety class last week said that there was only one state that has specific labor safety laws that are written for theater. Yep folks it's Idaho! Leading the way in occupancy rules, theater rigging, and arena rigging.
I don't know for sure that there aren't other states with specific theater laws but there it is in Idaho. Crazy huh?
Federal law says if a state decides to write it's own safety standards they must exceed OSHA. So it's actually:
- "OSHA says you must do X"
-"State safety code says you must do at least X and maybe also Y"
Also the guy teaching my safety class last week said that there was only one state that has specific labor safety laws that are written for theater. Yep folks it's Idaho! Leading the way in occupancy rules, theater rigging, and arena rigging.
I don't know for sure that there aren't other states with specific theater laws but there it is in Idaho. Crazy huh?
I was at an install over the weekend of some pop band at a sports stadium. Saw the IA riggers climbing a ladder that seemingly had a wire rope at it’s center & stop block mid-way down so as to catch someone over like 12' should they fall.
Curious I thought this system as opposed to normal vertical fall arrest I’m used to. There was a wire rope running down the center of the ladder & mid-way up was a sort of stop block they would have to work around as climbing the ladder, yet it would stop them before they hit the deck.
Saw one of the IA people look at his harness (a repelling one not a fall protection one - nobody even if they had a dual purpose one was using their harness in that mode that I could see), clip in than un-clip his non shock absorbing lanyard. He was seemingly a newbee in being confused with what to do & ended up following everyone else in not clipping in while climbing the ladder which also did not have a cage about it. Most repelling harnesses also did not even use the shoulder straps thus while heavily padded were not possible to rig as per a safety harness. Found it curious the use of such gear and don't remember anyone having a persay proper harness in use.
They than once atop all clipped their non-shock absorbing lanyards into a construction type horizontal fall protection wire rope for walking the beams. Again, no shock absorption or rear mounted to the body attachment. The wire rope itself was not shock absorbing either.
Kind of curious as it was an “A” crew to the best of my knowledge - this even if some of them were seemingly under training as to how to do rigging. None were using what I would think normal safety practices, instead while they did clip in once walking the beams, they didn’t clip in the way that’s normal, and were not using shock absorbing equipment over what’s normally used for repelling. This of course noted that the lanyards were not overly long so a fall would only be a few feet at most theoretically.
Curious I thought this system as opposed to normal vertical fall arrest I’m used to. There was a wire rope running down the center of the ladder & mid-way up was a sort of stop block they would have to work around as climbing the ladder, yet it would stop them before they hit the deck.
Saw one of the IA people look at his harness (a repelling one not a fall protection one - nobody even if they had a dual purpose one was using their harness in that mode that I could see), clip in than un-clip his non shock absorbing lanyard. He was seemingly a newbee in being confused with what to do & ended up following everyone else in not clipping in while climbing the ladder which also did not have a cage about it. Most repelling harnesses also did not even use the shoulder straps thus while heavily padded were not possible to rig as per a safety harness. Found it curious the use of such gear and don't remember anyone having a persay proper harness in use.
They than once atop all clipped their non-shock absorbing lanyards into a construction type horizontal fall protection wire rope for walking the beams. Again, no shock absorption or rear mounted to the body attachment. The wire rope itself was not shock absorbing either.
Kind of curious as it was an “A” crew to the best of my knowledge - this even if some of them were seemingly under training as to how to do rigging. None were using what I would think normal safety practices, instead while they did clip in once walking the beams, they didn’t clip in the way that’s normal, and were not using shock absorbing equipment over what’s normally used for repelling. This of course noted that the lanyards were not overly long so a fall would only be a few feet at most theoretically.
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Thats cable situation is pretty much the same thing that is at the theatre I am currently at. Its a 40' non caged ladder with a cable going up the side, in the middle of the cable 20' up it is anchored into the wall. What they tell me is you go up, re-clip at the 20 while hanging off the ladder, and the reclip. I know that carriers exist that lock up on cables (thats what they use on large outdoor ladders up smoke stacks and the like). Why they dont have them is beyond me. I do have a 4' lanyard that does not have a shock absorber that I occasionally use for doing things that might require me to hang a bit (my harness is rated for work positioning..), but I clip an absorber onto it when I am working on most things.
Im big on safety as i have said before. Im still relatively new. FYI im a lighting tech ranging from deck elc to designer. The places iv worked i have never seen an harness, i also really havent thought about it much. If I feel unsafe i wont do it. But know im interested on this harness, where can check them out?
Fall arrest systems should be venue specific and designed by qualified installers. SRI is a big player in fall arrest, and in fact I got in contact with him the other day regarding my school's system.
While I/Controlbooth/people don't condone the practice, many have their own small systems, with a harness (w/ front D-ring) and a (double leg style, preferable) shock absorbing lanyard. It's an option I've considered for personal use, as I'll be interning at a venue with a 15 year old catwalk design, and no fall arrest. However, I dismissed the idea pretty quickly. From the regional theatres and colleges I've seen, not all that many have caught-up with the fall arrest band-wagon. I was visiting a college & talking with their TD while SRI was there doing an inspection, and one of the things they said was that the college should really get some fall arrest in there.
Charc -- the front D ring should only be used for repelling or hauling -- the dorsal or rear D ring is the fall arrest attachment point.
Check out Petzl.com -- work solutions. They've got some of the most comfortable and reputable harnesses available. For more detailed information about fall arrest -- email members off the forum -- don't want to cause a tizy.
Check out Petzl.com -- work solutions. They've got some of the most comfortable and reputable harnesses available. For more detailed information about fall arrest -- email members off the forum -- don't want to cause a tizy.
I'm not sure if this technically falls in the repelling or hauling, but the front D-ring is also used for wire rope grabs, say on a vertical lifeline for a ladder. So assuming this doesn't fall in those categories, the "only" comment is moot.
However, the reason why I said "w/ front D-ring" is that I believe OSHA specs now require that the harness have a front D-ring, but I could be wrong, and will not start my googling.
