415V 32Amp

anshu

Member
Hey Everyone,

I have a show coming over from the UK to the states, it's been on tour there for many many years. It' features some hydraulics. The issue is they use a 415v 32amp unit, something I have never seen in the states. Any ideas on how to get that to work over here, or what kind of a distro would give me that kind of power output? Or is the only real option to replace it?

Thanks!
Anshu
 
Hey Everyone,

I have a show coming over from the UK to the states, it's been on tour there for many many years. It' features some hydraulics. The issue is they use a 415v 32amp unit, something I have never seen in the states. Any ideas on how to get that to work over here, or what kind of a distro would give me that kind of power output? Or is the only real option to replace it?

Thanks!
Anshu
@anshu Single phase or 3 phase? Is 415V 32A the current it consumes or merely the rating of their Cee-form connector? Possibly they they'd be happy with 415 Volts at a little less than 32 Amps. When you learn EXACTLY what's required, you MAY be able to tap a U.S. 480 Volt transformer secondary down to something workable.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
Thanks for the quick response. Seeing as how the 415v 32a connector is a standard for them, who knows what its actually consuming. I shall get more information!
 
Thanks for the quick response. Seeing as how the 415v 32a connector is a standard for them, who knows what its actually consuming. I shall get more information!
@anshu As soon as you mentioned hydraulics, I suspect they'll be looking for 3 phase to spin their pump(s) in which case you'd best be certain of the rotation order of the phases. The last British production with appreciable hydraulics I'm recalling was "We will rock you!" and it was touring with a clever phase sensing motor drive which sensed the phase sequence and pulled in its forward or reverse contactor whichever was necessary so that it was IMPOSSIBLE to spin their pump incorrectly, even momentarily. Their hydraulic pump and starter was a well thought out, well designed system.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard
 
415V is what you get between two phases of 240V (think 120V and 208V but multiplied by 2). To get it to work over here you're probably looking at needing a 480V service and if necessary using a transformer to get down to 415V. Depending on the complexity of their hydraulic system it might have a power module that can do the conversion for you. The systems I work with run 400V motors from a 480V service with the conversion being done in control cabinet. As mentioned earlier make sure the motor can handle 60Hz. Otherwise there may be tears.
 
Once you find out the particulars of the gear they need to power, I’d call Aggreko, the national chain for power distro., generation, transforming, etc.... and ask them what they can provide.

I had an ice show with their gear once, the compressor ran on a 400 volt’ish service. They dropped a transformer on the curb and we powered from our 120/208 TV truck feed.

Just curious though if this is a one-off stop on this side of the pond ?, or a tour ?, as if a tour they will be having to solve this every stop. Thus they might want to re-think the gear they ship over.
 
Ahhhh... motor voltages are different than lamp voltages. A few of years back, I installed a 3 phase compressor on Delta 240. Unit was rated for that, but when I looked at the plate on the motor, it said 200 volts..... Called the manufacturer, they said the motor was fine on 240. Ok... Almost wanted that in writing, but bottom line was I did the install and it is working fine to this day.
On this question there are two steps:
1) Find out what exact product and model is needing that.
2) Call the manufacturer and ask them what you should do.
They could say it is fine on 440-480, or they could say don't do it. Bottom line, it's their contraption, they should know.
 
The biggest problem that you will run into is that US power is 60Hz, even at 480V, and UK power is 50Hz. As such, when you connect that HPU to US power, even if you nail the voltage bang on, the motor/pump is going to spin faster here than it did there. This will cause interesting issues with hydraulic pressure. The ideal solution is really to connect the motor to a VFD. With a good VFD you will be able to regulate all of the power to the motor (voltage, current, frequency), and you can ensure the motor spins at the correct speed so as not to mess up your hydraulics.

Conversely, if you were taking a US HPU overseas, using a VFD can make it so your pump doesn't spin too slowly due to lower frequency electrical distribution.

If you can get a photo of the motor nameplate, it will be a lot easier to tell you how to handle it.
 
The biggest problem that you will run into is that US power is 60Hz, even at 480V, and UK power is 50Hz. As such, when you connect that HPU to US power, even if you nail the voltage bang on, the motor/pump is going to spin faster here than it did there. This will cause interesting issues with hydraulic pressure. The ideal solution is really to connect the motor to a VFD. With a good VFD you will be able to regulate all of the power to the motor (voltage, current, frequency), and you can ensure the motor spins at the correct speed so as not to mess up your hydraulics.

Conversely, if you were taking a US HPU overseas, using a VFD can make it so your pump doesn't spin too slowly due to lower frequency electrical distribution.

If you can get a photo of the motor nameplate, it will be a lot easier to tell you how to handle it.
It is unlikely that the motor would be a synchronous motor and the effect of a higher frequency on a shunt motor is to increse the impedance and reduce the power, but with so many possibilities I'd be inclined to just buy U.S. motors and save a lot of problems.
 
Hey Everyone,

I have a show coming over from the UK to the states, it's been on tour there for many many years. It' features some hydraulics. The issue is they use a 415v 32amp unit, something I have never seen in the states. Any ideas on how to get that to work over here, or what kind of a distro would give me that kind of power output? Or is the only real option to replace it?

Thanks!
Anshu


Good Morning Anshu

This wouldn't be the Spider would it? If so, say hi to Jeb & the girls for me.
I have worked with the same issues here.
It is 3 phase, 50Hz, 415Vac. We run them off a Genni set to Euro power.
50 Hz is important and you want to get as close to 415 as you can,
The Brits have very tight safety procedures too.

And yes, it's their version of our 120 / 208, 60 hz.


Cheerio
 
Hi Everyone,

I have the plate attached!

I'd love to not use a genni if possible. Any other thoughts?
 

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I can think of three ways to deal with the frequency difference:

1. Replace the motor with a 60 Hz one of the same frame type, horsepower, and RPM.
2. Power it from a diesel generator
3. Use a frequency converter.

Option 1 ignores part of the problem. The other consideration is the hydraulics control system. It has to be powered properly, too. The power supply, hydraulic pump, and controls all need to be looked at together as a system. Overlooking a detail could be catastrophic.

Options 2 and 3 could resolve all of the issues. For option 2, the trick will be finding a generator that will do it. In the days of mechanical governors and simple voltage regulators, this was fairly easy. Modern generator controls are often too smart to allow 50 Hz at 415 V, unless designed for it. There probably are generators available for this, just not very common. You will need to find a vendor familiar with this. Unless they do it often, I would ask to see a unit under load at 415 / 50 before committing.

Option 3 is viable but expect a large, heavy, and expensive device. There are both mechanical (motor-generator) and sold state (electronic) frequency converters. Heat and noise will be considerations for both types. If operated in an enclosed space for long periods, ample HVAC will be required. Be sure the vendor knows that the converter has to start a hydraulic pump, because the starting current is an important factor.

Frankly, I think the touring company is putting too much on your shoulders by expecting to just bring their equipment in and power it up. It seems to me that they need to bring equipment designed to operate in North America.

There is more to this than can be resolved in this forum. I assume there is significant money riding on this. If so, hire an electrical engineer with some expertise in this, and let him or her sort it all out.
 
It seems to me that they need to bring equipment designed to operate in North America.
BINGO!
Who goes on tour in a foreign country expecting the venue to power their equipment off their own domestic specs?
You work these things out before the tour based on what electrical environments you expect to encounter during the tour.
 
Thanks for the replies.

As we are presenting the show with them, we are trying to work it out. I would 100% expect that there would be a discussion of "can we make our crap work and can you help us."

Seems that replacing the motor will likely be the solution.
 
You coud look and see if there was a close match for the whole htdraulic power unit. Just two hose couplings and hopefully same controls would work, maybe with a small inverter for them.
 
Looking at the nameplate the 50Hz is the hard part for the US. You could probably configure a generic SEW Eurodrive VFD to run the motor. Usually their inverters don't boost voltage, but if you call their surprisingly helpful tech support line you could probably find something to spit out 220V 50Hz for the motor to run in the delta configuration from normal US 208V 60Hz.
 
I can't tell from the motor tag if it is an inverter duty motor, but if you ran it on a 480V VFD, you could cap the frequency correctly, and you could safely output in the correct voltage range for the motor. It just becomes a matter of if you can get 480V service in the venues you will be visiting, but it actually isn't that uncommon.
 

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