Architectural Controller with audio to DMX

[rphilip]

I've got a situation where I'm being asked to come up with an audio to DMX control system that's running on some sort of architectural control system. Exact details are still very fuzzy for what I'll need to control but probably a bunch of RGB LED's. This would be running in a 16+ hour per day situation with unknown music (think Spotify) but no operator or desire to do more than once or twice a year programing changes. I'd like to avoid PC based solutions as I'm afraid they would require regular maintenance.

Something like ETC Paradigm would work but I don't see that it has audio to DMX options.

Is there something I'm missing or what products should I be looking at?

Thanks

Philip

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I don't know what all you have to accommodate but the ColorSource console has a rack mount kit and I'm pretty sure it has audio inputs. But it - and Paradigm - are "pc based" at some point. What isn't?

 

[rphilip]

I don't know what all you have to accommodate but the ColorSource console has a rack mount kit and I'm pretty sure it has audio inputs. But it - and Paradigm - are "pc based" at some point. What isn't?

By "not PC based" I'm saying I don't want the controler to be software running on a standard PC. Colorsource AV certainly is an option that I'd forgotten about.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

I get what you meant but I thought a lot of the cards with processors on them in consoles were, in fact, "standard" pcs. It's an interesting line to draw or not cross.

Funny what you find on Amazon - lights that sync to music category - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y15YVFN/?tag=controlbooth-20

I have to think there is some inexpensive piece that will do this, but to DMX may be the hard part.

ETC Mosaic I think also has audio inputs, but not sure they do what you want.

 

[RickR]

ETC Mosaic (Pharos) has audio in, as does Interactive Technologies Cue Server. I'm not sure either has audio analysis to set events to beats or frequency volume. I recall something about a sound to light program of theirs.

Madrix has lots of that sort of thing. Xmass lights dancing is usually Madrix gear.

 

[Amiers]

Look at Gilderfluke it’s has a controller that can program lights and they might have options now that take audio in. I know they have audio outs.

 

[RonHebbard]

I've got a situation where I'm being asked to come up with an audio to DMX control system that's running on some sort of architectural control system. Exact details are still very fuzzy for what I'll need to control but probably a bunch of RGB LED's. This would be running in a 16+ hour per day situation with unknown music (think Spotify) but no operator or desire to do more than once or twice a year programing changes. I'd like to avoid PC based solutions as I'm afraid they would require regular maintenance.

Something like ETC Paradigm would work but I don't see that it has audio to DMX options.

Is there something I'm missing or what products should I be looking at?

Thanks

Philip

@rphilip Have a thorough Google through Alcorn McBride's (Sp?) site. I suspect you'll find multiple solutions at a variety of price points, possibly ranging from steep to steeper but EXTREMELY reliable and very well supported.
Edited to add link to Alcorn's site: https://alcorn.com/products/
@rphilip Give Alcorn's site a serious look.
Toodleoo!
Ron Hebbard

 

[Mac Hosehead]

It would seem that what you are looking for is not well defined.

If you are looking for something that lights would react to random songs then I think a DJ lighting console might suffice.

If you are looking for something that would play the same set of songs and would playback lighting events at specific programmed points during the songs then you might look at some of the Christmas lighting sequencers. They are designed for Christmas displays but will create a timeline for each song and can produce lighting events at any point. xLights is a popular sequencer and can create files that can be played back on a Raspberry Pi.
https://xlights.org/

For an architectural system, ETC Mosaic might be able to do the same. It is based on timelines. The programming software can be downloaded from ETC.

 

[Morte615]

Back awhile (2014), I worked with a new system to do some Midway Lighting. I didn't do much on the install or programming beyond give it an audio input and use a scheduler, but Pharos had an audio input unit that took audio in and matched the beats of the audio to different chase units. Again not sure how it was programmed by the people who did the install (Vincent Lighting in OH if I remember correctly) but it sounds like it did the exact thing you are looking for.

This is what we used according to pictures I have: https://www.pharoscontrols.com/products/remote-devices/rio-a-audio/

 

[Chase P.]

It sounds like you’re looking for the lights to change based on whatever music is on, not a pre-programmed playlist?

There are a number of cheapie lighting consoles with audio triggers. They can usually be set to basically flip through a stack of cues each time they sense a beat through the microphone.

In my experience, They work just about as well as the lackluster audio functions built into DJ grade LED pars, but offer the added benefit of bumping through your cues, not just a rainbow of colors.

I’d start with Amazon and try one out. You can always return it if it doesn’t do the job.

Edit: Found the model I’d used in a similar situation. Elation Magic 260. There are many similar ones, mostly from DJ level suppliers; ADJ, Chauvet, even found a Monoprice.

 

[rwhealey]

I've got a situation where I'm being asked to come up with an audio to DMX control system that's running on some sort of architectural control system. Exact details are still very fuzzy for what I'll need to control but probably a bunch of RGB LED's. This would be running in a 16+ hour per day situation with unknown music (think Spotify) but no operator or desire to do more than once or twice a year programing changes. I'd like to avoid PC based solutions as I'm afraid they would require regular maintenance.

Something like ETC Paradigm would work but I don't see that it has audio to DMX options.

Is there something I'm missing or what products should I be looking at?

Thanks

Philip

The Sound2Light tool that ETC uses on the ColorsourceAV console is open source: https://github.com/ETCLabs/Sound2Light

You say you don't want a PC solution, but a high-uptime computer sounds like what you really need here. I bet a lower-end Dell server is probably all you need, but I'd defer to someone with more IT hardware experience. You could then have the server running the Sound2Light software send OSC commands to an Ion Xe RPU, which has a better form factor than a console for this kind of thing.

If you really want dedicated audio processing hardware, I woinder if you could re-create the audio processing used in Sound2Light in QSC Q-Sys and use it to send IP or serial commands to a DMX controller. I think this might end up costing a lot more, however.

 

[RickR]

@Morte615 points to a non PC solution. ETC Mosaic is Pharos but with ETC software and support. The audio accessory will do the sound-2-light.

Many companies do this, as noted above. Permenant installation gear is pricey but more reliable 24/7. Console/PC gear is cheaper and comes in more flavors.

 

[BillConnerFASTC]

What is the desired relationship between audio and lights? Frequency to color and volume to intensity?

 

[MNicolai]

Additional questions:

1) How many lighting zones are there are going to be, roughly?

2) Will there be a wide diversity of fixture types (i.e. cove lighting, strip lighting, recessed cans/troffers, chandeliers, etc)?

3) Do all of the zones need a unified look or does it matter if they're each doing their own thing?

4) Will the controller serve other architectural control purposes, such as serving room lighting, control via button or touch panels, etc?

5) How many audio zones will there be? Just one muzak source or will multiple areas have different thing playing?

There are cheap ways of doing this, and there are expensive ways of doing it. Something like Colorsource AV may work, but you can only drive 6 playbacks off of it and if you're unhappy with the triggering I'm not sure you get a whole lot of control to do anything about it. Something like Mosaic/Pharos will also work, but you're probably looking at $10-12k installed cost (not looking at a price sheet, just remembering those remote audio interfaces are stupid expensive plus you or a third party will spend some time programming). If this is more of a sports bar look than architainment, then you can probably get by with those LED power supplies with integrated Sound-to-Light because nobody will care if each lighting zone is doing its own thing.

Quite frankly, you have to walk into the weeds a little bit but there are a hundred types of architectural lighting controllers that do this kind of thing -- many of which have a good possibility of being cheaper than ETC Mosaic if the overall project size isn't that large.

 

[Malabaristo]

Now that you've got some ideas of hardware from here, you'll want to go back to the customer and have a more detailed conversation about expectations. If they're thinking that there's a magic box out there that can take any sort of audio input they throw at it and turn it into full on rock concert lighting, then the answer is "no". There's a reason lighting designers and programmers still have jobs.

ETC Mosaic is the product I'm most familiar with for this kind of application (but as mentioned, it's basically the same as Pharos). It's pretty flexible, and can monitor the audio input across several configurable frequency bands, then have things happen based on the level in each frequency band. The simplest way of looking at it is if you have one light for each frequency band, then the level could control the brightness of each fixture. Or it could be hue rather than brightness in a color-changing fixture, or it could be several fixtures forming a sort of bar-graph. You can also set triggers to do more complex actions/effects when a level is exceeded (ie: do something flashy on each big bassbeat--and therein lies one of the big problems: it's not reasonable to try to pick thresholds that would work well for every kind of music played at any level. Even if you're doing a really basic level-to-brightness effect, you still have to pick a scale. If you adjust for louder songs, then quiet songs will never result in useful brightness. If you adjust for quiet songs, then loud songs will result in everything being stuck at full. Similarly, a lot of modern recordings are so compressed that there isn't enough dynamic range to do anything interesting at all regardless of what settings you choose.

If you have a limited selection of music, can afford to spend a lot of time tweaking settings, and can count on it always being played back at the same level, then you've got a chance of doing something at least sort of interesting. If not all of those, then it's going to be pretty mediocre.

 

[DIYLED]

On the DJ forums there's a sound-to-DMX box that a lot of them use. I forget the brand, it was not a commonly known lighting brand. It displays the different frequency bands. The better products will have automatic gain control for volume sensitivity, and I believe analog active (op-amp) filters have less noise than digital filters and therefore more dynamic range.

If your client is open to using MIDI files, then the display can do a lot more. For example, my open source project: lights4music.com

A Raspberry Pi, as mentioned earlier but more generally speaking, is one way to run a PC without running a PC, in terms of reliability, automation, and power consumption.

 

[coolsvens]

I've got a situation where I'm being asked to come up with an audio to DMX control system that's running on some sort of architectural control system. Exact details are still very fuzzy for what I'll need to control but probably a bunch of RGB LED's. This would be running in a 16+ hour per day situation with unknown music (think Spotify) but no operator or desire to do more than once or twice a year programing changes. I'd like to avoid PC based solutions as I'm afraid they would require regular maintenance.

Something like ETC Paradigm would work but I don't see that it has audio to DMX options.

Is there something I'm missing or what products should I be looking at?

Thanks

Philip

Phillip,
I would look at the ETC Mosaic with the Rio-A as an option for Audio in. This is going to be a very robust architectual product that is meant to run 24/7 in an equipment room. And it has no fans and all Solid State, and would be the goto choice.

Mosaic
https://www.etcconnect.com/Products...aic/Controllers/Show-Controller/Features.aspx
https://www.etcconnect.com/Products...c/Remote-Devices/Mosaic-TPC-RIO/Features.aspx

Rio-A
https://www.etcconnect.com/Products...ote-Devices/Remote-Audio-Device/Features.aspx

 

[Richard Young]

I've got a situation where I'm being asked to come up with an audio to DMX control system that's running on some sort of architectural control system. Exact details are still very fuzzy for what I'll need to control but probably a bunch of RGB LED's. This would be running in a 16+ hour per day situation with unknown music (think Spotify) but no operator or desire to do more than once or twice a year programing changes. I'd like to avoid PC based solutions as I'm afraid they would require regular maintenance.

Something like ETC Paradigm would work but I don't see that it has audio to DMX options.

Is there something I'm missing or what products should I be looking at?

Thanks

Philip

Don’t over think it. The answer might just be a simple Chauvet obay.
Around 100$ or less has audio in, many chase options. Most music stores carry them, plenty for even less on eBay & Amazon. If you can afford to wait a month or sometimes more the Lixada from China ( it’s the same thing as the Chauvet) their the OEM, can be had for 35$ probably want to get 2 as there will be no customer support and a warranty return could take months. I got one to just check it out. Metal construction 19” rack mount. Have started sending it out on small DJ rentals. The Chauvet online toutorials work as it’s the same damm thing. Built in mic for amateurs and line level in for those with a spare aux send.

 

[rphilip]

Sorry for kind of abandoning the thread. I had this wonderful thing called a vacation

After returning to work I've been able to define things abit further but there's still lots of questions that I don't have answers for.

ETC Mosaic (Pharos) has audio in, as does Interactive Technologies Cue Server. ...
Madrix has lots of that sort of thing. Xmass lights dancing is usually Madrix gear.

It would seem that what you are looking for is not well defined.

If you are looking for something that lights would react to random songs then I think a DJ lighting console might suffice.
...

This is for a some of a fitness/well center's group exercise rooms so the audio source will be muzak, the instructor's phone, or other similar uncontrolled audio source. Sounds like I'll have 1-3 rooms where something like this is the dream. However the problem is tech budget for the building wasn't a realistic number so we are over budget with things are already cut to the bone yet the dreamers keep dreaming, ............. Oh by the way, the building is already enclosed and most internal walls are already framed/laid to give you a perspective as to how late the dreamers are dreaming.

I think that Mosaic, Pharos or CueServer would be the ideal but budget will likely either cut the idea entirely or push me to something DJ grade. Gilderfluke and Alcorn McBride doen't seem to have audio in from what I can see.

1) How many lighting zones are there are going to be, roughly?

2-3 rooms x 2-~10 zones per room

2) Will there be a wide diversity of fixture types (i.e. cove lighting, strip lighting, recessed cans/troffers, chandeliers, etc)?

Not fully defined but mostly strips or RGB cans hung in open ceiling above the strips/linear lighting used during "normal" times.

3) Do all of the zones need a unified look or does it matter if they're each doing their own thing?

Good question that I don't have an answer two, unified would be good, budget might say they do their own thing

4) Will the controller serve other architectural control purposes, such as serving room lighting, control via button or touch panels, etc?

The controller will probably be for this purpose only, the rest of the building will probably be using a more traditional commercial architectural controller.

5) How many audio zones will there be? Just one muzak source or will multiple areas have different thing playing?

1-3 audio zones

There are cheap ways of doing this, and there are expensive ways of doing it. Something like Colorsource AV may work, but you can only drive 6 playbacks off of it and if you're unhappy with the triggering I'm not sure you get a whole lot of control to do anything about it. Something like Mosaic/Pharos will also work, but you're probably looking at $10-12k installed cost (not looking at a price sheet, just remembering those remote audio interfaces are stupid expensive plus you or a third party will spend some time programming). If this is more of a sports bar look than architainment, then you can probably get by with those LED power supplies with integrated Sound-to-Light because nobody will care if each lighting zone is doing its own thing.

Quite frankly, you have to walk into the weeds a little bit but there are a hundred types of architectural lighting controllers that do this kind of thing -- many of which have a good possibility of being cheaper than ETC Mosaic if the overall project size isn't that large.

I was kind of afraid of getting this answer. I'm really not sure if I want the "chance" to play with something new (and then have to support it) or if I should be happy to not have extra work as I already have enough to stay more than busy.

Thanks to all,

Philip

 

[Amiers]

For something to take in any kind of audio from Joe And Jane Smith via multiple devices and a low budget man you are dreaming.

Cheap would be a raspberry pi in each room with a custom wall plate to accept all the popular audio connections and then dmx out from the pi that would make the lights do what you want.

Programming would be prolly the most painful.

Troubleshooting would be easy cause it will all live behind the plate. Pop it out if it’s being wonky and plug it in for testing.