Better Ideas for Powering LEDs (ETC Element 250)

[Nick Caburis]

In our auditorium, we use LED parcans (pretty much DJ grade stuff) which needs constant power. What we choose to do with our ETC Element is park channel 250 at full and patch the dimmer we plug the LEDs into onto the channel. We usually keep the board running constantly with blackout on and the grandmaster down when we're not using it(which doesn't affect the park obviously). However I'd like to be able to shut it down and let other people shut it down. When the board is shut down while the channel/dimmer is parked, it sets the dimmer to zero(I believe) and the LEDs get screwy.

Read the next paragraph with this in mind, the less user-input, the better because of the people who come into contact with the board.

As of right now the possible solutions are unplugging the LEDs from the dimmer(which is located as far from humanly possible from the control booth), unpark/repark during shutdown/startup, or possibly creating a macro to start shut down. The problem with the macro idea is that it I could make a button or leave instructions to launch the shutdown but as of right now I don't believe I can program a macro to automatically launch on startup. Any ideas?

 

[lightguyty]

First of all - Running any sort of Electronic Power Supply off of a conventional dimmer set a full is a recipe for failed power supplies. What make/brand of dimmers does your school have? Ideally you should change the firing mode of the dimmer or the module type to a "Switched Mode" or a "Non-Dim" module. The dimmer module is still going to be messing with the sine wave of your AC power, which in the long run can cause problems with the power supplies in your Pars.

Second - The way that I used to achieve this with my relay modules, was create a macro that parked them at full, as well as a macro that released the park. Once those macros are created, in the Setup>Show Settings, there are two boxes that will let you define "Startup Macro" and "Shutdown Macro". These will fire the macros once the Element software is booted up completely, and when the console is shut down correctly. That being said, the shutdown macro will not fire if the console is hard cycled with the power switch on the back or by holding down the power button on the front.

Since you are a student, make sure you have approval from any faculty or adult in charge before making any changes, and have the faculty member make changes to the dimmer configuration.

 

[sk8rsdad]

I'm pretty sure Element supports Startup and Shutdown macros. It should be under Show Settings. These are executed without any user action.

If your dimmer system supports a hold-last-look setting that can also be part of the solution. It can be used to turn off power to channels some time after the loss of input from the console. Then all you need to do is permamently park the (ideally) relays on and leave it to the rack to de-energize them.

 

[Excitronic]

What dimmer rack are you using? If it's a ETC sensor rack chances are you can manually override the dmx and set a single channel's level on the rack itself. I bet it can be done with other dimmer racks but I don't have any experience with others. At my school we used to power our LED pars from the dimmers but we let that go because we realized if our board crashed or our dmx system failed everything would go down. Also because the even if the dimmers are left on at 100 the output isn't a pure sine wave and might cause some anomalies with the LEDs. One more thing is most dimmers are designed to work with resistive loads like halogen lamps and filament-based lamps, they aren't designed to work with electronic loads like LED pars. If your circumstances require that the pars be powered from a channel then I'd try to get channel 250 manually set to full from the rack, that way the only thing your console is controlling is the dmx addresses for the LEDs. If you can avoid powering them from a dimmer, just run a long heavy gauge extension to a nearby outlet.

 

[Excitronic]

While I was typing, lightguyty pretty summed up the problem with the dimmers in more detail. Gotta be fast on this forum

 

[tdeater]

In our theater, we purchased constant power modules for our dimmer racks. We turn the breaker on and off on the module to switch the constant power on and off, but our dimmers are on the way from the booth to the door, not in some out of the way spot. It has worked well for us so far. No DMX or programming to mess with, and about as simple as I can make it for our techs.
Or, we just use regular wall outlets ,but then you are back to unplugging things each night.

 

[Nick Caburis]

Ok so upon further research and some minor consulting with my buddy few things have been learned. The dimmer we have is not programmable. So when it loses signal from the source(the control board) it sets the power to 0. Which sadly means it's still gets a tiny amount of power because of the nature of the dimmer. So the issue isn't the parking at this point, it would be either finding a way to continue the signal to the rack while the board is off or finding a seperate option altogether. Personally, I might just run a cord down the wall and split a conventional plug or something because they don't pull like anything because of the "dj" nature of the fixtures.

 

[Dionysus]

Ok so upon further research and some minor consulting with my buddy few things have been learned. The dimmer we have is not programmable. So when it loses signal from the source(the control board) it sets the power to 0. Which sadly means it's still gets a tiny amount of power because of the nature of the dimmer. So the issue isn't the parking at this point, it would be either finding a way to continue the signal to the rack while the board is off or finding a seperate option altogether. Personally, I might just run a cord down the wall and split a conventional plug or something because they don't pull like anything because of the "dj" nature of the fixtures.

You should NEVER use DIMMERS to power electronic devices. You should use RELAYS or CONSTANT POWER. There are many many posts around this forum on exactly why, and what kind of problems it can cause. Same goes with MOTOR loads, which HATE on typical lighting dimmers.

Will it work? Yes. Should you do it? No.

You can get DMX RELAYS to switch the power on and off, and most dimmer racks have available RELAY modules so you can use your existing infrastructure.

Typically when I am in an ad-hoc situation where I need power I just run power to where I need it, or sometimes use my DMX relay pack so I can switch it on and off.

 

[JD]

First, as everyone has said, NEVER run an electronic device off a dimmer!
So, you're doing it..... and you are experiencing one of two problems; Either your dimmer has an idle set on it, or, more likely the leakage from the firing circuit it tickling the power supply in your LED units causing them to misbehave. If it is the second problem, then a dummy load will stop it. (Think 200 watt, 230 volt lamp (for super long life) hidden somewhere safe and plugged into the same channel.)
Still, you LED pars at some point will most likely die a horrible death after an unreasonably short life. They want clean power from a constant power source, or a relay module. (Not "relay mode" but actual dry-contact relays that go "Click.")

 

[Brentgi]

Why not just plug them into the wall? They don't draw much power and there's really no reason that you shouldn't be able to just leave them on all the time.

Also, I agree with everyone else: Don't run electronics of off a dimmer, for reasons listed above.

The best thing to do is just ask if your maintenance/facilities dept can cut in power and, if necessary, put them on a switch.

 

[KBToys82]

So wait...since we are moving away from our dimmer rack to LED's for the entire theatre, one thing I have thought about was the ETC Colorsource DMX relay which allows for power switching when a DMX signal is present.

If they are able to install in a convenient location a on/off switch (probably under lock and key) that would control certain groups of lights or maybe even entire electrics that then connects to a 15-20 amp circuit, will that be OK, or am I making this a lot easier in my head than it really is?

 

[KBToys82]

If it is indeed a little more complicated than that, I guess I can have the ETC Colorsource Wired Relay at the start of each circuit, and I would not even have to worry about powering down any of the fixtures (if I have it correct.)

 

[RickR]

If it is indeed a little more complicated than that, I guess I can have the ETC Colorsource Wired Relay at the start of each circuit, and I would not even have to worry about powering down any of the fixtures (if I have it correct.)

I believe you understand the CS relay. A switch on the wall would be a manual alternative, but both would be silly. One consideration is that you will likely want more than one power circuit. A lot of fixtures are 150 watts or less but 'inrush' can trip a breaker when many fixtures are turned on at once. I'm seeing recommendations for 10-15 fixtures max per 20A circuit. Add some cabling headaches and several circuits looks really good. If you are having an electrician run new circuits then installing some switches for daily on/off would be cheap and easy. If you are using existing power then the CS Relay will be the way to go.

 

[KBToys82]

Rick, that's twice today you helped me out majorly! I guess this explains why for example the 680W Elation Color Chorus 72 can not be linked be power linked, tho I'm still hoping to put them on the same circuit.

The only thing left for to figure out is if I can mix and match Colorsource and Ovation Leko's with PowerCON, and if so, will my configuration work.


Oh...and now I just realized I completely forgot about replacing my awful house lights to LED into the estimate I already sent in. Ugh.

 

[Les]

Why not just plug them into the wall? They don't draw much power and there's really no reason that you shouldn't be able to just leave them on all the time.

I usually advise against this, but it does depend on the fixture. If there is a fan involved, I feel like they should be powered down when not in use. But if the cooling is through convection, I suppose it's not too much of an issue.

 

[RickR]

Mixing fixtures on a power string is not a problem. Overloading the cables (of whatever type) or the circuit breaker is the issue. In-rush is the extra power needed to charge a bunch of electronics in the fixtures, in the first 1/120th second! The time is so brief that the cables won't overheat. But if the rush is big enough the breaker will trip, but you can usually reset it and continue - really annoying!

 

[RickR]

Oh yes, look at the conductor size in your power-con cables. Probably not 12 gauge!